[ajole]

Remember…being called NATO doesn’t make it NATO, nor does actually BEING NATO spec make it +P.

The NATO spec is for velocity, not pressure. It can include 115 or 124 grain bullets, too.

 

[ajole]

Frankly...if a $600+ weapon can't handle +p ammo....why would you buy it?

Exactly. I'm just figuring Nato is gtg if it is +p rated. Sealed bullets and primers are also a bonus.

You need to quit even bothering with the "NATO" label thing.

What you need to know is, if the stuff you bought in the white box with the red letters (or whatever) is +P, and if so, is that OK.

The answer, as you said, is yes....IF it's +P, it's gtg. So THAT's good news.

But you still don't know if it's +P....or even really NATO.

 

[ajole]

Ruger told me today that while their American magwell adapter is available for the carbine, they are dropping the Ruger American pistol over the next two years.

Just enough time to re-introduce the SR line, to match the .22 and the magwell.🤣

 

[ajole]

Actually, it kinda does. It's just that SAAMI has no say in it.

Nor does NATO. You can literally stick the word NATO on a box of 22 shells, and no one has a say in that. Obviously, people would KNOW that’s just marketing BS….but so is most of the 9 mm NATO out there.
If you want to be technical, if the brass isn’t marked with the NATO cross in a circle, then it isn’t NATO at all, no matter what the box says on it.

Actually, NATO spec calls out both velocity and max pressure.

Dude…ALL cartridges have a max pressure….THAT isn’t what makes a round NATO. Approaching that is what makes it +P, but….we don’t know if it even comes close.

375 m/s minimum in their test barrel (I think it's 7" long or something)
Less than or equal to 2950 bar, which, after being adjusted for different measuring systems equates to 36,500 psi in SAAMI method (or 37,000 psi radial copper measure).

Yes….yes….let the technical but meaningless data with mixed measurements and units flow through you….

SAAMI max for 9mm Parabellum is 35,000, which is 1,500 psi less than max NATO spec but under the SAAMI max of 38,500 for +P. Anything falling between 35,000 and 38,500 would fall under SAAMI +P specs.

Just FYI…IIRC, those are different max specs. One is an average Max, one is a Max. So not exactly Granny Smith vs Macintosh.

The confusion comes from the fact that the velocity is a required minimum which the pressure is a not-to-be-exceeded maximum.
If the manufacturer can make the minimum velocity without exceeding SAAMI or CIP, then the NATO spec doesn't care.

Yes. My point exactly. Thanks for reiterating it.

BUT NATO spec 9mm might exceed SAAMI max for standard pressure and you have no way to know if it does or doesn't. But NATO pressure spec does fall snugly in between SAAMI max for standard pressure and max for +P. Truthfully, this means that NATO spec 9mm probably is +P, you just don't have any way of knowing for sure.

Oh…and again! Thanks for re-reiterating it.

So, actually, yes, 9mm NATO probably is +P most of the time.

Assuming it’s ACTUALLY NATO spec, and not just 124 grains at some lawyer loaded bottom of the spec velocity with NATO on the box…which is legal….and….

….WHICH IS MY POINT.

 

[ajole]

In other words, buy a couple more mags and get something else to use as now I have a discontinued model.

Something else to use….for what? If it works….shoot it up. I have two SR’s, one in 40, one in 9 mm. Heck, 90% of the guns I own are “discontinued”, but I have no qualms about “using” them.
Are you just trying to keep it pristine for future collectible status, or what?

 

[ajole]

That's my read. I haven't understood Ruger's direction in service pistols since they dropped the P series.

They’re chasing it, rather than leading. Make a gun like everyone else’s, don’t sell as many as the bean counters thought they would, partly because you have 5 different guns competing with themselves, so you obviously need to develop a completely new design…based on everyone else’s.

My guess is the next flavor of the day will be modular.

Expect the next Ruger to be a FCU, that will fit in a duty module, and a compact module, and a race gun module, and a sub compact module….etc.

 

[ajole]

Modular - like the Ruger American?

https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/RAP-chassisL.jpg

View attachment 77363

Yes....but with actual parts that go with it. Compare Sig module and accessory availability with Ruger....it's sad for Ruger.

Here's a question for AL and anyone else, but @ajole always has good input on this...

Thinking about a Scope for these here Ruger PCCs and wondering if a BDC is worth the extra $$ or what.

Not on a 9mm, unless you WANT to try to shoot 150 yards with a popgun.

 

[ajole]

Great answer, I'd just like to be able to explore the limits of the combo, then decide that I'd better just as well switch to the AR15 for everything over that.
So what scope or other style optic would you suggest, keeping a budget in mind, along with a realistic distance? I've seen you recommend various BSA stuff. I'm just wondering if anything stands out...

I think the Primary Arms ACSS stuff is the answer; and bonus....there's a sale on an unmagnified ACSS Circle/Chevron with BDC dots, and a 2.5X ACSS Prism sight. Check your messages.

Another possiblity would be a LPVO, like this one....which I have. Circle dot, bright enough for daylight use, 1X (almost) so you can do both eyes open, 4X so you can see a bit better at 100 yards. No BDC, you'll have to hold over with a 9 mm.

https://www.amazon.com/CenterPoint-...ref=sr_1_2?keywords=CenterPoint+Optics&sr=8-2