Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Kyu, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. Kyu

    Kyu Senior Member Member

    Hi All,
    So I was having a discussion with some friends while tipping a few back and the topic turned to general survival (how, I'm not really sure). Nothing major, just the basic "lost in the forest" kind of scenario that you see on most made for tv movies.
    So we got discussing the "what would you do if cases" and I was a bit shocked at what I was hearing. Of the 9 of us at the table, only 2 (one of which was me) knew the "shelter, water, fire, food" doctrine. Furthermore, only a few knew of knots, how to properly lay a fire (or light it without matches), how to use a compass, how to boil water in a papercup/birch bark basket, wilderness first side, an many other (what I believe to be) common survival tricks (like snares and solar stills).
    Comparing notes with people here's what I learned. Of the 9 of us there, 3 were Boy Scouts and one was military. Of the scouts, one was an Eagle (yeah, that's me).
    Those of use who were scouts matched pretty well with the military guy and my knowledge from getting my Eagle was pretty much the same as his minus a few (possibly useful) battlefield tricks.
    So my main question is: do you thing that scouting (when properly run) is good survival training? I think all will agree that the military is. But the military is not for everyone. Scouting is.
    I owe most of my basic knowledge to scouts and feel that I could survive in most climates because this base allowed me to make the necessary, logical extensions.
    Personally, I think that this is exactly the training (I can only speak for Boy Scouts but I believe that Girl Scouts, Ventures, 4H, and the similar groups are just as valuable) that our youth should be having. If for no other reason than to be well rounded, self sufficient individuals. Any thoughts?

  2. I would have to agree with you about scouting teaching survival skills. My son made Eagle Scout before he turned 16, and earned 2 Bronze Palms afterward. Even as a young teen, he and a few other scouts in his troop impressed me. He was in a very active Troop, with adult leaders that let the scouts run the show. Some of the adult leaders were retired military, which I believe were a positive influence. We have a small family spread over 3 counties, and he and I have talked about a contingency plan incase TSHTF. We know it would be our responsibility to get everyone together. He has stayed in contact with other Scouts he grew up with. I would be proud and honored to be with any of them in a survival situation. Most of them are hunters and also have their CCW. More parents should encourage their children to join a Scouts, or a Venturing Crew.


  3. blkhwkfxr

    blkhwkfxr Guest

    I cant agree more with you guys. I think it not only teaches vital survival skills but a sence of self worth, team work and social skills that most kids are lacking these days. But... I also believe as parents and freinds of other adults we can teach and train those willing to learn all we may know about survival.
  4. 69burbon

    69burbon Well-Known Member

    I wholeheartedly agree, Scouting was a huge part of my life growing up. I never did make it too Eagle (mostly because I was too busy running the troop). I was made Senior Patrol Leader at 15 and held that position by election until I turned 17. I then became Junior Assistant Scoutmaster my senior year of high school. My dad was also very involved with my siblings and I in the troop. We spent a lot of time in the woods as kids, hunting, fishing, etc. My folks used to let us have the run of the woods at our cabin growing up.

    I did not get much survival training in the military, likely because I was in the Air Force and my job did not require it. The few times we did have exercises that required some outdoorsman skills, everyone (including our flight LT.) seemed to always come to me.
  5. Scouting has been horribly mistreated by the MSM in this country. It is a real positive influence in the lives of most of the kids involved.
  6. Strangerous

    Strangerous Member

    All i have to say is:

    "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty, to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law, To help other people at all times, To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight."

    What do the Boy Scouts teach? Well they teach character... good traits to have in a good American (though scouting was adopted from the brits)
    A scout is...
    A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him.

    A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation.

    A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward.

    A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own.

    A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together.

    A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason.

    A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them.

    A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.

    A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

    A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him.

    A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.

    A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

    Scout Motto: ALWAYS be prepared

    Scout Slogan: Do a good turn (deed) daily

    I loved being in the scouts, but i wasn't an eagle scout. I was a "Star" scout with a "Den Chief" cord... was on my way to "Life" scout, but I lost intrest. +1 to the eagles!
  7. 69burbon

    69burbon Well-Known Member

    The Outdoor Code

    As an American, I will do my best to -

    * Be clean in my outdoor manners
    * Be careful with fire
    * Be considerate in the outdoors, and
    * Be conservation minded.

    We used to recite this every week in out troop meetings. I grew up as an outdoorsman. Hunting and fishing have always been a part of my life.
  8. Jag

    Jag Member

    Here's my take on this:

    First off, sorry for my absence from the forum for awhile; I've been just a wee bit busy with college...that's life for ya, always gets in the way with the important things that end up blocking you from spending time on other important things, like keeping in touch with friends (like you guys here on the forum)...go figure... :roll:

    Anyway, back on topic (sorry for the thread hijack). Speaking as the son of an Air Force buck sargent survival instructor and a kid who grew up participating in the Boy Scouts (first as a Cub Scout and then a Boy Scout up through First Class--yeah, I dropped out, but that is another story that I won't get into here on the open forum; PM me if you would be interested to hear a personal story about Scouting), I can officially say that Scouting, when properly lead and taught, has a very high capacity for teaching good survival skills to civilians who may not ever have the chance to recieve military training. Although, since my dad was in the Air Force, I kinda had the best of both worlds: military training (including escape and evasion, crash survival, theoretical combat scenario overview dealing with a single person or a small group attempting to hold their own against a larger enemy force, etc.) and civilian Scouting training on wilderness survival (with the obvious overlap in certain areas). I learned quite a bit from both environments, and it was also great 'cause I got to spend a lot of time with my folks out camping, hunting, fishing, hiking, etc. If one has the opportunity, Scouting might just provide oneself with the right venue through which one can learn these skills.

    Well, I'll try to post some more here on the survival board as I get an opportunity (maybe I'll do another Tip-of-the-Week today!). Later all!

    Jag 8)

    P.S. Not to toot my horn or anything, but I finally turned 21 this past Sunday. When I get a chance, I'll have to post some pics of my new CCW--ironically, it's a Communist-bloc pistol that will be employed to protect a free Western's a PA-63 Hungarian police pistol chambered in the nice 9X18mm Makarov cartridge. It's a beautiful gun and it feels great in the hand as well, though I have not yet had an opportunity to take it out shooting. I'll post some pics and a review in the Gun Pics/Other Firearms boards when I get a chance. Later all!
  9. Thorn 242

    Thorn 242 Well-Known Member

    happy birthday jag....have a drink on the rest of us!
  10. RU Krazy

    RU Krazy Guest

    Go back and check up on your scouting history.

    Powel started the scouts to prepare young men for the military. He had seen too many Tommies die in the Boer War due to lack of woodcraft skills.

    The military IS for everybody, male and female. Worst mistake Bush made was failing to institute universal military service on 9/12/2001.
  11. Kyu

    Kyu Senior Member Member

    You're close to correct. Powell was indeed one of the few heroes of the Boer War and he did take directive in officially establishing scouting in 1907. Now, why did he do it? Powell had written a book called "Aids to Scouting" about his ideas for military scouts. After the war, he found out that many of the country's youth were using this book as a guide to outdoor activities. Knowing that these children were too young to join the military, but acknowledging the benefits of children learning outdoor skills, he founded "peace scouting" for boys. His initial test of this idea was with a group of boys on Brownsea Island in 1907. Determining it a success, he then wrote "Scouting for Boys" which was a primmer of how to teach these skills to boys rather than men. The entire point was not to recruit boys to the military as such. It was to create a program that would teach boys skills that were, up to that point, only taught to soldiers in an curriculum fashion.

  12. psychogoc

    psychogoc Guest

    Just utilizing the basic skills learned in Scouting sets us all apart from others in the SHTF and/or survival situations, and it gets even more intense with other branches of scouting like Lone Scout, Ventures, Order of The Arrow, Firecrafter, Woodbadge, etc, etc. (Spoken like a true Eagle Scout, huh?) All my buddies who went into the military were tops in their platoon b/c of the skills they learned in scouting, and our scoutmaster(s) ran our troop like a well oiled military machine. I wish that ignorant and/or negative people did not portray scouting in a bad way, and that it was made more universally available to kids in rough settings. You should see some of the kids from the inner city that show up at some of our summer camps....they leave with a bigger appreciation and understanding of the outdoors, and it sure is a blast to watch inner-city kids develop into outdoorsmen!
  13. 69burbon

    69burbon Well-Known Member

    Hardest part is getting and KEEPING them interested. That is the biggest problem we have with our troop. Too many outside interests pulling them away today.
  14. Strangerous

    Strangerous Member

    Keep it interesting, some ideas:
    Whittling contest
    Pinewood derbys
    fire starting races
    fire pit construction (could be a competition)
    swim meets
    target shooting/sharpshooting tournament (bolt action .22's are used at "Camp Old Indian" here in SC)
    Hiking (Can be a local park's nature trail)
    Camping (Can be someone's large backyard or field)
    Creat some scout customs. ie: yearly trips to a theme park, fundraisers, troop olympics? , adopt a highway, community service drives, the list goes on...

    Just some ideas for you to think on.
  15. Kyu

    Kyu Senior Member Member

  16. hero_saku39

    hero_saku39 Guest

    .....guess I'm not a good American although I do respect your beliefs....
  17. Strangerous

    Strangerous Member

    It's printed in the scout manual. I didn't make these traits, nor try to say you were not a good American. Just to make that crystal clear.
  18. hero_saku39

    hero_saku39 Guest

    oh...sorry bout that.

    I used to be a cub scout........about 25 years ago.... :shock:

    strangely I can't remember anything from cub scouts.........I don't think we did anything that really dealt with what my brother did in the boy scouts...... we memorized a lot of stuff and had skit shows and the "cub scout olympics"....I didn't learn anything that stuck with me.
  19. I never did anything with the Scouts, but I grew up before the computer age and used to spend a LOT of time in the woods. I really miss the times running through the woods with my brother and the 82nd Airborne division. Went straight from that to the military. It only seemed natural at the time. Thought about the Marines, but chose travel instead and ended up in the Navy. So, growing up in the forest and 15 years in the military, I don't think I missed too much by not being in the Boy Scouts.
  20. I didn't have a Boy Scout troop anywhere near me when I grew up... Not like it mattered. My brother and I were always in the woods camping and stuff. We grew up hunters so we knew our way around the sticks for sure.