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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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Got a sweet list of mouse guns from our main man @adam01364 "GUNBY" so I will reboot this post at that point! Mostly steel frames, and all 22 short to 25 acp calibers. I think there is an Alloy frame in there.

Titan: Only the EIG Titan had a ferrous frame - and the later ones made in 1968 had Zamak. Even ferrous Titans can suffer frame damage where the barrel pins to the frame, look for cracks or elongated holes. Chambered in 22S and 25ACP, but the 22S is pretty rare.

Galesi: Good Italian pistols, ferrous frames, but kind of a pain in the ass to put back together it you strip them down to the frame. There are several models with subtle difference. Chambered in 22L, 22LR, and 25ACP. 25ACP is most common.

Rigarmi: Another good Italian pistol, ferrous frames, but kind of a pain in the ass to put back together it you strip them down to the frame. Like the Galesi, the Rigarmi was chambered in 22L, 22LR, and 25ACP; again 25ACP is most common. There are at least two different Rigami models, and one of them was cloned by Eugene Salls for the Sterling 300 and 302 pistols.

Bauer: A very close stainless steel clone of the Browning Baby. Only chambered in 25ACP. The grade of the stainless is a little soft, and I've seen at least one frame crack. If you compare a Bauer and Browning Baby side by side, and rack the slide, you will notice the Bauer isn't nearly as smooth.

Sterling: Available in blued and stainless steel, these are very close clones of the Rigarmi. Chambered in 22LR (Model 302) and 25ACP (Model 300). There are subtle variances in the Sterling production, notably in the firing pin channel diameter.

Bernadelli: The Bernadelli VP is a diminutive ferrous framed pistol (smaller than a Browning Baby) chambered in 22S, 22L, and 25ACP. These can be a major PITA to put back together. The disconnector sits loosely under the left grip and is very easy to lose.


This is pretty sweet, I have plenty of 22lr and even a nice stash of 22s, it's a "fat 50" plano box full of HV 22s which should last me quite a while. 25 ACP is new for me, but this class of firearms, I think I could break my "Mole's Rules" and get away with minimal ammo and less than my usual 6-10 magazines per handgun :rotfl:
@Foolsgold39 We're Back and hopefully in "Politically Correct" Forum Form. ;)
 

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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Why not step up to 32 ACP? I actually saw some of that in the store the other day.
That would be great too.
What I am doing is gathering data and when I go window shopping, I will have a little knowledge from the greatest minds here @hpff and can maybe score a great deal on stuff that I used to just pass right on by. Could have gotten a pair of SNS a few years back for dirt cheap, I came home and got on here and ppl were talking about the guns I had jsut seen. I'm recalling <$30 and <$50 prices. Some sorta 22 pocket guns. One was just a parts gun... for <$30, as I recall.
 

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UndeRGRound,

Got a sweet list of mouse guns from our main man @adam01364 "GUNBY" so I will reboot this post at that point! Mostly steel frames, and all 22 short to 25 acp calibers. I think there is an Alloy frame in there.

Titan: Only the EIG Titan had a ferrous frame - and the later ones made in 1968 had Zamak. Even ferrous Titans can suffer frame damage where the barrel pins to the frame, look for cracks or elongated holes. Chambered in 22S and 25ACP, but the 22S is pretty rare.

Galesi: Good Italian pistols, ferrous frames, but kind of a pain in the ass to put back together it you strip them down to the frame. There are several models with subtle difference. Chambered in 22L, 22LR, and 25ACP. 25ACP is most common.

Rigarmi: Another good Italian pistol, ferrous frames, but kind of a pain in the ass to put back together it you strip them down to the frame. Like the Galesi, the Rigarmi was chambered in 22L, 22LR, and 25ACP; again 25ACP is most common. There are at least two different Rigami models, and one of them was cloned by Eugene Salls for the Sterling 300 and 302 pistols.

Bauer: A very close stainless steel clone of the Browning Baby. Only chambered in 25ACP. The grade of the stainless is a little soft, and I've seen at least one frame crack. If you compare a Bauer and Browning Baby side by side, and rack the slide, you will notice the Bauer isn't nearly as smooth.

Sterling: Available in blued and stainless steel, these are very close clones of the Rigarmi. Chambered in 22LR (Model 302) and 25ACP (Model 300). There are subtle variances in the Sterling production, notably in the firing pin channel diameter.

Bernadelli: The Bernadelli VP is a diminutive ferrous framed pistol (smaller than a Browning Baby) chambered in 22S, 22L, and 25ACP. These can be a major PITA to put back together. The disconnector sits loosely under the left grip and is very easy to lose.


This is pretty sweet, I have plenty of 22lr and even a nice stash of 22s, it's a "fat 50" plano box full of HV 22s which should last me quite a while. 25 ACP is new for me, but this class of firearms, I think I could break my "Mole's Rules" and get away with minimal ammo and less than my usual 6-10 magazines per handgun :rotfl:
@Foolsgold39 We're Back and hopefully in "Politically Correct" Forum Form. ;)
Great post, lots of good info, thanks!!!

Regards,
Foolsgold39
 

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Got a sweet list of mouse guns
You forgot to mention these are mouse guns that do not have Zamak frames (with the exception of some 1968 EIG Titans).

Since they aren't made from Zamak, they're not really Saturday Night Specials... or are they? That debate will continue long after we've all passed on to the great shooting range in the sky.

I wrote an article "Tale of the Titans" here on HPFF that provides some details about the EIG/FIE/Excam/QFI Titan pistols. Link: https://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com/articles/a-tale-of-the-titans-italian-and-american.319/ In my opinion, the EIGs were the cream of the crop, most likely Tanfoglio imports simply stamped with EIG's name.

BTW, Galesi and Rigarmi look similar, and rightfully so since Rigarmi was founded by the son of one the Galesi brothers. At a quick glance, the pistols look the same, but they're not, parts won't interchange (don't ask me how I know) The Galesi and Rigami pistols were available blued, chrome, and some were even engraved.

Just remember we are talking about 50 year old guns here and finding replacement parts -if needed- can be a challenge.
 
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Another step up is the 9x18 Makarov chambered guns. Pocket carry is possible, and they are almost literally bullet proof reliable.
Good luck finding ammo, though.
 

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Adam,
You forgot to mention these are mouse guns that do not have Zamak frames (with the exception of some 1968 EIG Titans).

Since they aren't made from Zamak, they're not really Saturday Night Specials... or are they? That debate will continue long after we've all passed on to the great shooting range in the sky.

I wrote an article "Tale of the Titans" here on HPFF that provides some details about the EIG/FIE/Excam/QFI Titan pistols. Link: https://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com/articles/a-tale-of-the-titans-italian-and-american.319/ In my opinion, the EIGs were the cream of the crop, most likely Tanfoglio imports simply stamped with EIG's name.

BTW, Galesi and Rigarmi look similar, and rightfully so since Rigarmi was founded by the son of one the Galesi brothers. At a quick glance, the pistols look the same, but they're not, parts won't interchange (don't ask me how I know) The Galesi and Rigami pistols were available blued, chrome, and some were even engraved.

Just remember we are talking about 50 year old guns here and finding replacement parts -if needed- can be a challenge.
Awesome stuff as always! Thank you. Your linked article is pure gold as well and very helpful for me.

Regards,
Foolsgold39
 

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The Bauer 25, is very sharp! Those edges are very uncomfortable. I wish it was reliable, but right now, for a very small gun, I would take a NAA Mini over a Bauer. The first Raven I bought is by far the most reliable 25 I own (of the ones I have shot--have a Colt and a couple of Astra's I have not fired yet).

I am not sure it is even an SNS, since PSP/PSA are ridiculously expensive but what about the Kassnar 25? I am looking at one that has a PSP 25 slide and Kassnar grips.
 

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Another step up is the 9x18 Makarov chambered guns. Pocket carry is possible, and they are almost literally bullet proof reliable.
Good luck finding ammo, though.
The P64 is a great gun! But then I have yet to find a 9x18 firearm that I don't like :)

I bought a couple of P64 frames a year so ago with the goal of rebuilding them. Sadly, I have not been able to really find any parts and the ones I do find are stupid expensive.

For awhile ammo was still pretty cheap but it has gone up. Ammoseek has it for around the 50-80 cents a round.
 

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The Bauer 25, is very sharp! Those edges are very uncomfortable. <snip>
I am not sure it is even an SNS, since PSP/PSA are ridiculously expensive but what about the Kassnar 25?
Yes, Bauer's have very sharp edges. I've smoothed the corners to get a Bauer to be as smooth as a Browning Baby; it worked.
I then smoothed the internals to try to get the Bauer to operate as silky smooth as my Browning Baby... it worked, but only to a point; it was still kinda gritty. Remember, the Bauer is an unauthorized clone of the Browning Baby. (BTW Browning sued Bauer over it and Bauer lost)

As to the PSP-25, it's a great gun and often overlooked as a junk SNS pistol, which it definitely isn't. Here's the skinny: After the '68GCA banned the importation of the Belgian made Browning Baby, Precision Small Parts of Charlotte VA was licensed to manufacture the Baby for Browning. PSP also made their own authorized clone, the PSP-25, which Kassnar marketed.
You can find a PSP-25 with no name grips, or Kassnar grips.

IMO a PSP-25 with Kassnar grips would be very desirable, even better if it came with the box.

Here's a pic of a PSP-25 without Kassnar grips.
upload_2021-1-10_16-50-1.png
 
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Yes, Bauer's have very sharp edges. I've smoothed the corners to get a Bauer to be as smooth as a Browning Baby; it worked.
I then smoothed the internals to try to get the Bauer to operate as silky smooth as my Browning Baby... it worked, but only to a point; it was still kinda gritty. Remember, the Bauer is an unauthorized clone of the Browning Baby. (BTW Browning sued Bauer over it and Bauer lost)

As to the PSP-25, it's a great gun and often overlooked as a junk SNS pistol, which it definitely isn't. Here's the skinny: After the '68GCA banned the importation of the Belgian made Browning Baby, Precision Small Parts of Charlotte VA was licensed to manufacture the Baby for Browning. PSP also made their own authorized clone, the PSP-25, which Kassnar marketed.
You can find a PSP-25 with no name grips, or Kassnar grips.

IMO a PSP-25 with Kassnar grips would be very desirable, even better if it came with the box.

Here's a pic of a PSP-25 without Kassnar grips.
View attachment 70067
Thank you. Not sure I wanted to hear that LOL!!!!! Because now I will have to try and get it. LOL!!!!!!

A Baby Browning has been on my list of guns to get for a very long time now. Reminds me I really should fix the Baby Colt I got a long time ago. LOL!

They do seem like a lot of maintenance if one shoots them a lot. The PSA website suggests a lot of replacing parts every 500 rounds.
 

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Putting 500 rounds through a Baby is a chore... @6 rounds per mag that's like 83 magazines. It's not a range toy, its an up close and personal self-defense gun. I usually take mine to the range and put a couple of mags through it just to keep myself comfortable with it.

Another thing about Browning Baby pistols is magazines. The original FN mags aren't nearly as reliable as the Mecgars which have a curved follower. Both the PSP-25 and the PSA-25 use Mecgars.

FN mag is on the left; Mecgar on the right.
upload_2021-1-10_20-24-43.png
 

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Putting 500 rounds through a Baby is a chore... @6 rounds per mag that's like 83 magazines. It's not a range toy, its an up close and personal self-defense gun. I usually take mine to the range and put a couple of mags through it just to keep myself comfortable with it.

Another thing about Browning Baby pistols is magazines. The original FN mags aren't nearly as reliable as the Mecgars which have a curved follower. Both the PSP-25 and the PSA-25 use Mecgars.

FN mag is on the left; Mecgar on the right.
View attachment 70071
I am a glutton for punishment :)

I saw a note about the magazines on the PSA website.
 

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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
UndeRGRound,

Great post, lots of good info, thanks!!!

Regards,
Foolsgold39
Thank ADAM too, he has provided the lion's share of the info so far!
You guys have produced the rest. I'm in learning mode :popcorn:
 

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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I hope no one has motion sickness, we're no in Kansas anymore, Dorothy... :eek:
 
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