Self defense ammo????

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by syst3merror, May 12, 2008.

  1. syst3merror

    syst3merror Guest

    Are there types of ammo that you are not ALLOWED to use for self defense?

    Basically, could I get in trouble for shooting a burglar with a certain type of ammo over another type of ammo?

    Sorry for asking so many questions everyone, I just want to have every angle covered so I know what is wrong and what is right about being a gun owner.
  2. Unless you live in New Jersey (I think... I know one state only allows FMJ) you're ok.

  3. Oh, and the caliber corner has a sticky on recommended loads. Check that out. I prefer Federal HST; Speer Gold Dot would be my second choice.
  4. And PLEASE don't take this wrong. You don't have many posts and you're asking some great questions. Again - don't take this wrong, but have you taken a handgun safety course? The NRA courses for safety AND home defense are excellent. Just a thought.
  5. As far as TN is concerned, if you can legally buy it, you can shoot someone with it. There are over penetration factors to worry about. The best advice I heard was in my CCW class:
    When the defense comes at you asking you why you were using such dastardly, evil, unethical, unGodly ammunition, i.e. JHP, when shooting at their client, tell them that you were only using what the police use. If the police use it then how can it be dastardly, evil, unethical, unGodly, etc.?

    I bought some JHP's at the last gunshow, the guy selling them was with the sheriffs dept, he said it was what they used department wide and never had a problem with them. They weren't the most expensive ones either, so I know he didn't try to con me. Can't find the dang box, but the cartridge says, "F.C. 9mm Luger" on the bottom. They are JHP's.
  6. syst3merror

    syst3merror Guest

    No offense taken at all newskate. No, I haven't taken any safety courses and would love to get any knowledge I would help make myself and my wifes feel better about having a gun in our home (we have 2 small children).

    Is there a way I can find out where they are offered and when? Thanks for the suggestion newskate....I knew I could depend on this site for help! :)
  7. That's what we're all about my friend.

    Couple of suggestions - look for local hunting/sports clubs with ranges - many will offer classes. Call Bass Pro, Cabella's and similar stores and ask for gun depts. Many times they know of classes in the area - mine do. Check NRA website. Call where you got your gun.

    That should get you started. Any Indiana folks care to chime in?

    Also - youngsters in the house - it's obvious but I'll say it anyhow - you need to take special care. I don't have real young ones so if you want/need any ideas on that, some others can add value here. All mine drive now and are trained, so no issues here.

    Best of luck and welcome to the fold. Learn all you can, practice as much as possible and be prepared to help the next "youngster" that joins our family.
  8. I have a 4 year old, inquisitive soul. She knows Daddy and Papa have guns, but not where they are, how to get into them, how to load a magazine, load the magazine into the gun, or chamber a round. Plus they are all in locked cases out of her reach/sight. I recently bought a NAA .22lr mini-revolver. It looks like a toy. Yes, she does like toy guns, she has a black cap gun that is revovler-like and a derringer look-alike that used to be a lighter that I modified, took out the innards and put an orange tip on the end of the barrel. My mom was furious that I bought a gun that my daughter might think was a toy. (My family and I rent the back half/apartment of my parents house.) I assured her that Grace will never, Never, NEVER, even see this gun or know that I have it until she is old enough to drive. It is very easy to conceal, I can do it in the palm of my hand. She didn't believe me, but cooled off after I told her that it will remain in my locked case on top of my 6 foot entertainment armoire until I can legally carry it. At that point, she will remain ignorant of the fact that I have it.
    Moral: Keep your guns, even if they are in a locked case, out of the reach of your little ones. IMO, a lock just isn't enough.
  9. syst3merror

    syst3merror Guest

    I went to walmart and bought a keycode locking safe (not just for the gun but for items like SS cards, birth certificates, etc.). It is under our bed on my side and I can easily get to it. My kids won't even know I have it if it's up to me. I'm sure at some point my son will probably catch me with it, but he'll NEVER know where it is located and even if he finds the safe, he won't be able to get in so I'm not too worried.

    I grew up in a house with no guns, none of my family owned guns other than my grandpa that lived in the country and owned a .22 to keep coons out of the trash.

    I feel that in this day in age, you are stupid to NOT own protection.

    Like they always say: "When Seconds Count, The Police Are Only Minutes Away"
  10. Of course it is not even needed to mention that any sort of hand modification to make a round cause more damage is a big no no probably anywhere you go.
  11. syst3merror

    syst3merror Guest

    lmao yeah, definitely not needed. :) I don't know anything about guns/ammo so I'm not about to try "Modifying" anything.

    Granted, it was probably good info for others to know.
  12. Krippp

    Krippp Well-Known Member

    just my .02 cents but i've found that alot of times when kids know that there are guns in the house and that they are hidden from them they will, due to their inquisitive nature, take any chance that they get to locate and play with the "forbidden toys". the wife and I have adopted a policy which allows the kids to ask us and we'll show them the weapons only after demonstrating the proper way to check first as to whether is is loaded or not. my 5 year old was handed a crickett .22 at the gun store last week and he proceeded to open the bolt and check before handling the gun any further. now, after the kids have handled them a few times they don't seem to care much about the guns, to them they are just part of the house and they aren't curious about them at all.
  13. NOT to go off topic from syst3merror's question, but I took the NRA "Protection In the Home" last month and also the NRA "Out of the Home Protection" courses and they both did me good!
    SAFETY is #1.
    Ask all the questions you want right here on the forum. I like to think we all learn from each other :wink: .
  14. Krippp:
    That is a good idea. I think I will wait until she is a little older and my wife and mom are both more comfortable with the guns themselves. This is all pretty new to the whole family. My mom is very nervous around guns and my wife likes me having one or two, but that's it.
    Right, my guns are in a place where few people under 6 feet tall can easily reach them. My wife can't get to them without a helluva stretch. There is absolutely no way my daughter will be able to get to them until she is 6 or seven and can use a step stool on her own. At that point, she will have her own cricket .22, and will be able to recite gun safety by heart while blindfolded with one arm tied behind her back. In other words it will be drummed in to her.
  15. when i had my taurus .40 cal...i got a hold of a box of black talon hollow points....i believe they were coated in teflon or something. folks were calling them "cop killers" so needless to say they didn't last long. shame of it is, i used them just messing around at the range.
  16. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    Another thing to consider is perception.

    Essentially, and this is rarely ever right but constantly done, the one who uses force is considered the "aggressor". If that aggressor is met with EQUAL or lesser force that somehow stops their intended task (be it theift, harm to another, or what not), then the the one who committed the lesser force is considered to be less libel than the other, if that second party or person acted in defence.


    If there is force used that is considered greater than what was presented by the aggressor, that reacting party or person could be faced with charges as well.

    In plain English:

    Guy breaks into your house with a baseball bat. This is now the aggressor by legal point. The aggressor has trespassed by illegal means wielding a weapon and therefore presenting a threat to you. If you beat him up with another baseball bat, the police will usually consider it equal force. If you shoot him with one pistol round, stating that you were in fear for your life, they will usually consider that equal force as well with avaliable means.

    If you shoot him 10 times with an Uzi, then it's considered excessive force. If you shoot him with "Black Talons", even if it is only one round, the police will question you on why you have such "lethal" rounds when a FMJ is considered sufficent.

    This gets into a WHOLE bunch of grey area. What if all you have is a shotgun? What if the gun he's carrying is an Airsoft gun and not a real gun? What if the attacker is 3 times your physical mass and only has a knife, but you use a gun? The list can go on and on about "What if's". And this is what makes law enforcement so difficult, since most investigators have to come in after all is said and done, and sometimes don't get a chance to interview the other party due to an accute case of lead poisoning or assisted cardiac arrest (pick your term).

    The best rule of thumb is go for what is known to stop a person, but use logic. Teflon fragmentation rounds are probably NOT the most ideal round to carry, and the bedside gun should be something reliable and accurate, and NOT the AK with the 75 round drum. While it may not make any difference in the end, it's all on how the event is perceived and how you can handle the event with a satisfactory outcome.
  17. hp4lyfe

    hp4lyfe Member

  18. Here in Tennessee, anyone in my home that my wife or I did not give permission to be in the house is fair game. He does not have to have a weapon in hand. He may have set it down to pick up your TV, jewelry, whatever; you have no way of knowing.

    Out of the house, the level of threat is the determining factor for self-defense or manslaughter.

    "Yes, officer, I was in fear for my life" - Could you have fled? Was there another way out?

    "I only shot him(her) to stop the threat against me/my wife/our family" - How many rounds did it take to stop the threat? Were you shooting to kill or incapacitate?

    Just some thoughts...
  19. syst3merror

    syst3merror Guest

    Well I know it may be wrong of me to say this, but NOBODY'S life is more important to me than my families and if someone breaks in to my house while we are there, I am shooting to kill!

    I've heard WAYYYYY too much about our stupid judicial system screwing the homeowner
    (example: homeowner shoots burglar in the leg, burglar sues homeowner for injuries and WINS!!!!)
  20. NO NO NO you always say you shot to stop the threat. Telling the police or a jury that you intended to kill the perp can do nothing but harm to your case.

    Think what you want, but say what will save your butt in a court of law ;)

    IMO telling them that you intended to kill someone, even if they were in the wrong, would be right up there with stopping to reload a couple of times to make sure he was dead :)