Sending Guns

Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by Flyboy, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. Alright, so, here's the situation:

    Friend of mine in Indiana had the crap beat out of her by her ex-boyfriend/baby-daddy and his sister-in-law. She and the kids are okay, but not feeling secure at all. I as well as others have advised her to file a police report and get a restraining order, but as we all know, a piece of paper will not stop a fist. So I am sending her my C9 as a precaution under the condition she take a firearms safety course and the transfer be done at her LGS.
    Now, the legalities. This is where I get murky. As you all know, I am not in possession of my firearms. My parents are, as well as my brother. The transfer sheet, which I wrote myself and had them all sign, has his name on it as well as theirs, and he is over the age of 21 and (as far as I am aware) legally able to possess firearms and ammunition.
    I am of course not doing this lightly nor am I going to do anything illegal. My question simply is this; can my brother send it to her LGS. Since I have only ever received firearms, not sent them, I am unfamiliar with the whole process. Is it simply a matter of my brother receiving her LGS' FFL, going to UPS, sending it, and then her picking it up, or is there more involved?

    She just had a baby and has a young daughter. This guy was pretty amicable until recently, but after this, well, I don't want her without protection simply because she can't afford it. Obviously, I am not sending it to her to use it. I just want to make sure that if the worst is at her door, she has a way to keep it at bay.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
  2. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    It should be sent from an FFL to her FFL since he is not the legal owner of the firearm.
    Also, something you need to consider.... if she uses the firearm and is sued you could find yourself dragged into the suit for vicarious liability since you provided it to her for the express purpose you stated here. Based upon the actions that have so far transpired, a civil lawsuit could claim dolus eventualis and add weight to vicarious liability under the respondeat superior act. If it were me and I wanted to get involved, which I would not, I would send her money and let her do with it what she wants. If she buys a firearm with it that is on her and not you.

    Just my .02 worth.


  3. Rerun

    Rerun Supporting Member

    The best thing she could do is take Your money and relocate to a different state more than a day's drive away for a couple of years.

    Break all ties with BF.

  4. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    There should be no issues with someone other than you doing the transfer thru an FFL since she isnt buying the firearm. They are simply shipping it for you. Indiana is a rather pro gun state the recieving FFL will likely be more than willing to help her find local training. What part of Indiana? I might be able to get some references as well to help get her some experience.
  5. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    The state laws seem to vary. I sent a gun to an FFL in Maryland, via UPS, as an unlicensed person. No issues.

    Some states seem to have an irrational fear of its citizens, and require an FFL send as well as receive any gun.:rolleyes:

    As to him not being the owner, no issue, as you apparently made him your agent with your paperwork.
  6. MachoMelvin

    MachoMelvin Well-Known Member

    Why don't you just send her $150, and tell her to go buy one herself? Sure would be a lot simpler?
  7. My understanding is that this is not a state issue, but fed. Anytime a firearms crosses a state line to another person, 'sposed to be FFL on each end.

    IE... I have an American Derringer .357. I talked to American Derringer to see about sending it to them (the manufacturer) for some work. They told me the price for the work plus $35 on each end for the FFL to send it to them.
    We all know that (ah hem) certain makers tell you to ship it as parts. But as I understand it Amer Derr is following the letter of the law.
  8. Earnshaw

    Earnshaw Member

    The FFL on both ends requirement was struck down as unconstitutional but I'm not sure the law is changed now or after all appeals.
  9. Visper

    Visper AK = Automatic Killer!?! Supporting Member

    Ding Ding Ding, good answer!!

    It will be much simpler!!

    I actually have purchased a couple firearms for my Dad online. One from PSA and one from Buds. I pay with my card, but put his name and FFL shipping address. Yes they call and check to make sure it isn't a stolen card, but it is feasible.

    My Dad still has to pick it up at the FFL and do his NICS, but totally legal.
  10. Because I don't have $150 to spare. I do however have a C9 I'm not using.
  11. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Except that's not right. You can legally per ATF rules send and recieve firearms without an FFL for repair at a liscensed gunsmith or manufacturer or for customization/modification.
    The US post office does not accept firearms without being an FFL holder, but UPS does. "Parts" is a loophole to get the USPS to accept the package.
  12. Fort Wayne.
  13. missiledefender

    missiledefender Supporting Member

    You can legally mail (in the US Postal Service) a firearm: from yourself TO yourself. You could play fast and loose and say that youre going to move there IF there was a question from a Postal Inspector. MY recommendation is to transfer it through a FFL IN CASE there's an actual use of the pistol. It'll clear you of anything, you wont be'll be HER pistol.
  14. What the plan is is this: since I was going to give that pistol to him anyways (he is planning on getting his CCW), I am going to draft a Firearm Bill of Sale that we will both sign, with me giving it to him as a gift. So it will be 100% his. He will then go to a gun shop near our house and send it through them to the gun shop near her. They will do the paperwork and checks and she'll get it on her end. Nice clean process.
  15. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

    You're over thinking it. Every firearm I've ever sent out was a very simple process. I walked into a FFL and said "I want to send this to here". Paid them their fee and left. Never had to sign anything or prove ownership.
  16. missiledefender

    missiledefender Supporting Member

    The problem is, youre paying two FFLS to do 10 minutes worth of paperwork. The FFL that you give it to and on their end, when they pick up the pistol from the other FFL.

    Mail it to them, have them do the transfer paperwork on their end or just do a bill of sale and mail it to them. I'd do the later, unless you think that they at one time or another will do something dastardly with the C9?
  17. mn_doggie

    mn_doggie Member

    I don't see the "mail to yourself" as in option in docs from the USPS?
  18. My Makarov was sent to my LGS via UPS from the guy I bought it from, from Florida to Ohio, no problems there. He included a scan of his ID, a copy of my LGS's FFL, and the gun.
  19. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Honestly after the fees, it would be cheaper and easier to just send her the money and have her buy a new one.

    I am going to talk with friends in the area about training recommendations though for her.
  20. Not easy at all, actually. She doesn't have PayPal. Mailing a check or money order from APO to the States takes at the minimum a week (it takes my parents in Minnesota eight days on average to get any letters/cards we send). I do not want her to be without protection that long, considered he messaged her the other day that he had just bought a shotgun. The police say it's not a threat or inflammatory statement, so they can't do anything about it. Direct bank transfer maybe, but she does not feel comfortable giving me (or anybody) her account number, which is fine by me.
    Plus, I can't even spare $50 (my brother is covering the shipping). I am an E-5 in a UK economy with a wife and son to support. Every dollar is budgeted, and literally 0% of it can go towards anything other than what it's already been budgeted for.

    She does, however, have an FFL address and a phone number, and I have a pistol I will not see or use again for years that I bought for $100 off a neighbor that is reliable and functional.

    It's a no brainer here.