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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Not sure if this belongs here, but I figure this community is a good one to ask for advice :)

Been shooting my 995TS and my Taurus G3 9mm. When I shoot at silhouette targets, with both guns (995 at 10-15 yds, G3 at 7-10 yds) I can put rounds in the HEADSHOT area all day long, but when I am aiming at the Center Mass Bullseye, I tend to be all over the place. Much better with the Carbine than the Pistol. Clearly, (or Blurrily with my eyes :)) there is something off with my sight picture. When aiming slightly HIGH, at the head area it seems that my eyes are better at aligning the sight, than shooting slightly lower, even though I think the sight picture is still good. Anything come to mind? I am nearsighted, and could see the Carbine iron sights better with my glasses on, but easier to see the 3 dot pistol sights without them. I forgot my glasses the last trip to the range, and actually shot fine with the Carbine...so go figure.
 

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Let's talk a bit about where you are putting your focus when you shoot. As you have probably heard many times over, the front sight should be clear, while the rear sight and target are slightly blurred. Depending on your glasses prescription, the distance from your eye to the front sight on the carbine versus the pistol might cause a challenge to front sight focus on one weapon because of the focal length associated with that glasses prescription.

Also, your carbine has an aperture sight, which works better for the eye because when you focus on the front sight, it is easier to center the tip of the post inside of the blurry ring on your carbine's rear sight than it is to center it between the two blurry dots on the rear sight of your pistol.

Regarding tighter groups in the head zone versus the the torso: you probably have tighter groups in the head zone because when you aim small, you miss small. The bigger torso area is less likely to lend itself to the same precise aiming you are doing with the head. Try putting a dot target in the middle of the torso. You will probably begin shooting tighter groups that way.
 

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Another thing to watch is trigger press. Only the index (trigger) finger should move, pressing straight back until the shot breaks. This can be a PITA to diagnose, Mix a couple snap caps randomly into your mag - if the barrel dips, you're jerking the trigger. Happens to almost everyone sometime and it will mess with your grouping
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
View attachment 66087 Thanks to both of you. Great advice.

You're spot on on the flinch down. Been paying attention to my trigger press as I can often feel myself flinching downward with the pistol. The Taurus has a really long take-up, so I can often feel the flinch before it even breaks. Might be anticipating that a little and thus sending shots HIGH as well. Less so with the carbine which is easier to brace more steadily. I think the carbine aiming issues are mostly due to sight focus with and without corrective lenses.

Aim small, miss small maybe at play too, but I have been trying to shoot at smaller dots, with a 12" Splatter target with small dots at 12, 6, 9, 3 o'clock but also finding that I do better aiming at the dot targets that are HIGHER on the paper. Can't hit the one at 6 o clock very well.

Will keep working on those two things. BTW, silhouette below was pretty good shooting (for me) without my glasses. 995 @10 yds. Splatter target was 995 @15 yds (no glasses). Most of the shots were somewhere near the center. Then 5 shots with the G3 @7 yds with one each at Top, Left, Right and Bottom dots. Missed horribly at the bottom with flyers right and low-right. Right silhouette from today. Shot all kinds of ammo at this target, but I was all over the place, but headshots were all in there, I think. Not sure if some of the high misses were actually low headshots. I think I only fired one mag (10 rounds) at the head.

995_10Yds.jpg 995_15Yds_G3 7yds.jpg Range_719.JPG
 

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That's a big step toward improvement when you recognize the flinch. A couple of decades before, when I was first applying deliberate handgun marksmanship fundamentals after some formal one-on-one instruction, I began to catch myself anticipating the trigger break because I was taking too long to press the trigger. Basically, taking too long caused me to reach a point of impatience, causing me to rush the shot. During those times, I caught myself tugging the muzzle down a smidge and stopped myself.

When training brand new shooters, I notice that they also catch themselves doing that. I always point that out to them as a positive. When they realize what their errors are and can actually tell when they jerked a shot and where it probably hit, they are on the right path. It means they know enough to be able to remedy their own issues in the future.

Regarding shots going high, that comes from contracting the pinky as you press the trigger. That causes the heal of the palm to move forward, raising the muzzle. I have that happen when I try to do longer strings of shots at 25 yards. The key is to solidify the grip with your three fingers before you press the trigger. If the ring and pinky fingers are already reasonably locked in, then there is no more room for them to contract and cause you to heal the muzzle upward as you press the trigger.

I primarily spend my range time with a couple of pistols (Sig P938 and Glock 30 SF with flush-fit magazines) that don't fit the pinky, so I have to be very careful about my grip when I do my controlled pairs or longer strings.

Another thing I practice is shooting one-handed with both my left and right hands. That really forces solid fundamentals. I recently started applying a technique I learned from a Jerry Miculek piece, and it has helped tremendously. When I lock my wrist and elbow out, I pull my shoulder to the rear inside the socket. That removes the last point at which a joint could allow excessive movement under recoil. It makes the pistol come back on target a lot faster.

Try some one-handed strings with each hand. Don't do it too far into the session, though. If you do, you'll find that your dominant hand has already fatigued a lot more than your weak hand (ask me how I know). After you've practiced one-handed with each hand, go back to your normal two-handed grip again.

Basically, a good program to use is one box of two-handed ammo to warm up, followed by 1.5-2 boxes of one-handed ammo, followed by a return to two-handed for the remainder of the session. You'll need 300 rounds to do that. If you take less ammo, adjust accordingly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Regarding shots going high, that comes from contracting the pinky as you press the trigger. That causes the heal of the palm to move forward, raising the muzzle. I have that happen when I try to do longer strings of shots at 25 yards. The key is to solidify the grip with your three fingers before you press the trigger. If the ring and pinky fingers are already reasonably locked in, then there is no more room for them to contract and cause you to heal the muzzle upward as you press the trigger.

Another thing I practice is shooting one-handed with both my left and right hands. That really forces solid fundamentals. joint could allow excessive movement under recoil. It makes the pistol come back on target a lot faster.

Try some one-handed strings with each hand.
Thanks! That pinky contraction is something I never thought of. Will pay attention now! Haven't felt comfortably enough for one handed shooting, but I am going to try it!
I am a lefty, but shoot right handed. The one time I tried shooting lefty, thinking I would have more control with my 'dominant' hand (two handed but left hand on the trigger) it did not go well :)
 

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Thanks! That pinky contraction is something I never thought of. Will pay attention now! Haven't felt comfortably enough for one handed shooting, but I am going to try it!
I am a lefty, but shoot right handed. The one time I tried shooting lefty, thinking I would have more control with my 'dominant' hand (two handed but left hand on the trigger) it did not go well :)
When there are other people at the range, there is a strong temptation to stick with what I do best.:p I had to check my ego and just force myself to do the stuff I was less proficient at doing.

One thing I do, too, is I use my left eye when shooting left-handed and my right eye when shooting right-handed. I shoot handguns with both eyes open. When you shoot with both eyes open, you'll see two guns, with one of the guns being a shadow. The gun on the left is the one your right eye sees, and the one on the right is the one your left eye sees. Just practice focusing on the front sight of the gun that is appropriate for the eye you are using. You can actually practice that in your living room, switching back and forth from one eye to the other. This image is what you would see if using your right eye. It would be the opposite if using your left eye.
Capture+_2019-03-17-21-15-58.png
 

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Learn to point shoot and ignore the sights. At the most common distance in a shooting you'll lose if you have to find your sights. Putting as many rounds into the adversary as possible in the least amount of time needed greatly increases your survival chances.
 

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Learn to point shoot and ignore the sights. At the most common distance in a shooting you'll lose if you have to find your sights. Putting as many rounds into the adversary as possible in the least amount of time needed greatly increases your survival chances.
I've heard this before, Flash, and it makes sense. Real life you may have to fire from the draw stroke at the hip or as you hand is coming up... endless variations that preclude getting a good sight picture, much less a two hand grip. I practice this to about 10 yards, then two hands with the sights to 25. Anything more than that would probably be hard to justify self defense under normal circumstances, I'm thinking. For me, much more than 25 and I need a rifle
 
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