Sighting Your Carbine: Bore Sight or Conventional?

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by Woreign, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Woreign

    Woreign Member

    9
    0
    I recently installed the red dot sight that came with my 995, and consequently had to remove the iron sights. I've debating on the best way to sight in the scope: purchase a laser bore sight or rely on the conventional means (fire, adjust, fire, adjust, repeat...).

    The laser bore sight sounds like a great option, especially if you want to experiment with different sights and configurations and not waste ammo while sighting in. However, the laser bore sights that I've found online, all have less than stellar reviews.

    Any suggestions or advice?
     
  2. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    Conventional, start at 10 yards, go to 25 and then to 50.

    .
     

  3. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    35,295
    12,128
    NE Utah
    What he said. Start close, get on paper and centered, then stretch out in increments. But don't adjust too fine at 25 if you are zeroing for 75 yards, and don't adjust at 50 if you want a 100 yard zero.

    Use a good solid position, even just get a front hand on a backpack or sandbag, or a rest of some kind.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  4. brownwater

    brownwater Brownwater Member

    31
    0
    Agree with both so far. 100% correct! I have even used a bench vise with padding to protect the rifle. Waste ammo? I look for any reason to fire my weapons. The bore sights get you close then you make adjustments from there.
     
  5. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Laser bore sights are great for what they are. However they are limited. Laser bore sights are 100% straight line of sight. Your ammunition, however, will be firing on a trajectory arc. The flattered shooting your ammunition is, such as .223 Remington, the more closely it will follow the straight line laser. The less flat shooting that the ammunition is, such as a .45 ACP perhaps, the less it will follow the straight line of the laser and the more you will have two intersect points.

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  6. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    35,295
    12,128
    NE Utah
    I don't see the limiting thing there?

    Isn't that the same thing that happens with your line of sight?

    Technically, the issue with a laser is that it points straight along the axis of the barrel, the bullet will only ever be lower than the laser, meaning the actual point of impact will probably be lower than indicated by the laser.

    Sights can be off in any direction, but at least when you shoot groups, you have actual evidence of which way and how much they are off.

    To me, the laser is pointless (no pun intended) since all it does is get you close...which shooting at 10 yards does without a $30+ investment in hardware.
     
  7. rmuniz9336

    rmuniz9336 Member

    699
    193
    I've done both. The laser get's it close, but the real test and final is the range.
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    A laser boresight will get you to that point without extending the Ammunition. If you do this multiple times, over the course of several rifles, you can recoup your investment in Ammunition at the 10 yard line pretty quickly.

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  9. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    35,295
    12,128
    NE Utah
    I disagree.

    The bore sight gets you no closer than one or two shells at 10 yards, and you still probably need to start at 10 yards.

    Even with the bore sight, you are still going to have to shoot a few groups to get zeroed. So, let's say you shoot 3 groups of 3, though you could use 2 shot groups at 10 yards. That's 4-5 guns zeroed with a $10-$20 box of ammo, no batteries required.
     
  10. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I'm not arguing against your method. It's the "traditional" method and works quite well. What I'm arguing is that using a laser bore sight works well to and, like everything else, has a "break even" point on cost evaluation. In that context a case can be made that the use of the technology is roughly equivalent to the old method.

    i.e.: at some point over the period of use, it's "a wash."

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  11. I start with a bore laser at home and get it lined up. Then, I'll go to the range and actually zero it. The laser gets me on the paper with the first shot which is a real help. What I mean is that, before using the laser, I'd been to the range without being able to determine where my shots were going...high, low, left, right?...all I knew is they weren't on the paper and that takes the fun out of the day real quick. Since using a laser, zeroing is quick, easy and fun.
     
  12. mn_doggie

    mn_doggie Member

    2,124
    461
    MN
    I use a string, and empty cartridge (with the primer removed and a center hole drilled), some duct tape and a target.

    I attach one end of the string to the target (with duct tape) at the point above the bullseye corresponding to the bullet drop at the distance being used.

    (If the drop is 7 inched at 100 yards, I attach the string 7" above the bullseye.)

    I go back to the firearm, run the string thru the barrel and out the chamber end, thread it thru the open end of the cartridge and tie a knot.

    Insert the cartridge in the chamber and close the action.

    I clamp the firearm is a soft vise after pulling all the slack up. I carefully make sure that the string is tight and it MUST BE CENTERED in the front of the barrel as it comes out.

    At that point, I adjust the sights by centering them on the bullseye.

    Mission accomplished.


    Additional info:

    Works well at distances up to 100 yards.

    Not so accurate past 5000 yds (and my neighbors don't like the string passing thru their yards.)
     
  13. Woreign

    Woreign Member

    9
    0
    I decided on the Sightmark Triple Duty Universal Bore Sight. Bought it through Amazon for $36.95, including shipping. As others have mentioned, I want to use it to get the sights aligned fairly well, and then fine tune at the range. On the plus side, my cats will have another laser light to chase around!
     
  14. ndindy

    ndindy Member

    154
    2
    Buy a vice instead of a laser, they're $20-30 for a basic one. With a vice you can 'zero' any rifle with 2 shots, 3rd to confirm, and every shot after that is just shooting.
     
  15. mn_doggie

    mn_doggie Member

    2,124
    461
    MN
    Was at the range a couple of weeks ago as he was trying to sight in his Cooper rifle, .338 Win Mag with Swarovski optics. He was shooting from a Lead sled so the rifle was held pretty well.

    It took him a bunch of shots and still wasn't hitting anything diiscernable until I made him walk up to 30 ft away from the target and shoot freehand. Based on where he hit at close range we were able to get it sighted in quickly.

    He was about 4 ft off at 100 yards. No way a vise or any other holding device would let him get right on unless he had a really big target.

    Your two shot comment assumes that the firearm is already hitting on the target which you can only guarantee by being up close.

    That isn't always the case, especially with rifles at longer distances.
     
  16. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    35,295
    12,128
    NE Utah
    And that is why we are saying start at 10 yards. Really...start at 10 yards.;)

    I have helped people that used a laser...they set it up in their house, pointed at the wall 15 feet away, go to the range and then wonder why they aren't on paper at 100 yards...:rolleyes:

    Also helped a guy out, he brought his laser with him. Laser was RIGHT on the bull at 100, scope was aimed RIGHT at the bull, but bullets were hitting 3 feet left. Turned out he had bent the arbor on the laser...:rolleyes:
     
  17. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    My range won't allow 10 yard targets and won't allow rifle's (outside of .22LR... sometimes) at the pistol lanes.

    Last time I went to set up some targets at 50' on the rifle range (prepping for the NRA rifle class), the RSO chewed me out, called an IMMEDIATE Cease Fire, and made me go take them down. I offered to just not shoot at them until next Cease Fire, but he wanted the "Mid Range Targets" down right now.

    Target ranges for rifle are 25 yards, 50 yards, and 90 yards (yes, ninety).

    If you want to sight in your rifle, you'd better darn well already be on paper at 25 yards.

    And I know for a fact that this is not the only range with said rules.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
  18. Dragonbreath

    Dragonbreath Member

    794
    471
    Alabama
    Laser bore sights run the gamut from totally worthless to valuable tools that you will use regularly. The laser bore sights that have the little stick and O rings that go down in the muzzle are pretty much junk, unless you want to play with a cat. I have one of those that I was given as a gift, and you can pull it in and out of the barrel 5 times and it will show 5 different things. The magnetic ones that stick on the end of the barrel are a little better. They will usually get you within 4inches at 30 yards.
    The best of the laser bore sights are the ones that are chambered into the gun. Those are usually pretty good. They also can be used as a training aid for new shooters, showing them the importance of trigger control etc.
     
  19. ndindy

    ndindy Member

    154
    2
    Not really. All you need is a larger than normal backer, anything that will catch the first bullet. Going off of bore sighting you should be able to free-sight within a 12-16" target. So yes, you need 1 hole on paper. When I've done lever guns etc that don't allow for traditional bore sighting I just throw a piece of cardboard up as a backstop. I've been doing that a while, usually just do it off of a bipod and don't worry about the vice, but the vice definitely makes things easier.

    A .338, swar glass, a lead slead and just pitching rounds into the backstop *usually* equals new shooter and an OMG too much gun :laugh: Anyone with any trigger time isn't going that route.
     
  20. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    If we were talking open sights, maybe.
    With a RD or scope, you can zero with 2 rounds. ;)

    .