SO, I want to sue....

Discussion in '2nd Amendment' started by tallbump, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    Recently, I have been to a few events at our local sports and entertainment arena.

    Sometime within the last few years, apparently they adopted a no weapons policy. According to the sign inside the first doors, by the box office, but before entering into the actual seating area and such, this is "for your safety...." :rolleyes:

    Anywho, I have begun to do some research and think this MAY be against the State statutes. NOTE - I am not talking about the law that was passed last year that gave the NRA and others standing to sue. I am talking about the per-existing law.

    The statue states

    18 PA.C.S. § 6120

    I know the new part of the law that gave the NRA standing to sue was overturned or repealed or whatever, but I belie that the main part of the law still stands.

    Now, the way I interpret this law is that the arena is violating it by not allowing firearms, because, it is operated by the Erie County Convention Center Authority, which is part of the City of Erie.

    I have reached out to the Executive Director of the Convention Center Authority to establish that they are in fact under the authority of the City.
    Once I know that for sure, I don't know what I will do.

    I don't know if I shoudl raise the issue with him, or try to find an attorney, or reach out to a Pro firearms group?

    I know the City solicitor as I did my internship in his private practice, and I know that he doesn't support this law. He defended out City last year or so against their illegal ban of firearms in parks...and he lost. That actually helped prompt the new law about the NRA and such being able to sue.

    So, what do ya'll think?
  2. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    SO, I got some more inof


  3. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

    And you still go there because??
  4. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    I go becuase I enjoy sports and entertainment :)

    However, I don't buy tickets. I go when I get free ones

    Recently I won 4 tickets to the sky box for our local semi-pro basketball team. Besides being in the box, we got free pizza, veggie and fruit trays, soda and chips and dip.

    I just got 4 free tickets today for our hockey team for tomorrow night.

    My concern isn't being in the arena, but walking back and forth from the parking lot.
  5. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    So sue.
    You will spend a lot of money paying for Lawyers for what?
    You have no cause of action for monetary or punitive damages.
    Pennsylvania Statutes do not prohibit you from carrying unless it is one of the specifically designated areas listed in the Statutes. However, any place can tell you to leave immediately and if you do not comply you could be charged under 18 Pa. C.S. § 3503.

    If you are just looking to make a statement, don't go there and don't spend any money there.

  6. IT is going to be a tough suit.
    You will need either Lots of money or the backing of a Pro 2a group.

    That being said. If you feel so inclined, inform them and maybe the sheriff that this is illegal. You would like it mended, but do not be surprised if you all you get is laughed at.
  7. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    I can see it now.

    PR guy: "Hey Joe Lawyer, this guy that never pays for a ticket is upset about our policy, and won't use anymore free tickets, which will now be given away to other people!":eek:

    Joe Lawyer: "Ummmmmm...OK? We still sold the ticket, someone is still filling the seat and buying food. So...why do we care?:confused:"
  8. Atomic_Ed

    Atomic_Ed Member

    So just conceal carry, if you have the permit, and carry a copy of the law with you.

    If you get called out, just explain your position and let them be the legal aggressors. If they ask you to leave, then leave. If they call the LEOs, just explain that you are a permitted person and thought the sign was for non-permitted individuals.

    Signs like this are "usually" a request to comply, not an ordnance. Just don't argue and get trapped into a trespassing charge.

    Washington has an exclusion in the conceal carry statute for "large gatherings". It concerned me at first, then I found a large gathering is greater than 25,000 people. It was specifically pointed at an open air concert hall that is usually a two day drunk fest. No big deal for me.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
  9. lsi1

    lsi1 Member

    Their security is terrible just carry, I once heard a story about a guy who didn't know it was antigun so he carried an lcp into a Rob Zombie concert there even through the handheld metal detectors being waved around by guys who didn't know what they are doing.

    These guys are right as much as it sucks the time and money isn't there for the very little benefit you would possibly receive.
  10. Rerun

    Rerun Member

    I know of several folk who have CCW's that attend different concert events regularly.

    They also have metal rings attached to their nipples. When the wand chirps, they momentarily flash their jewelry and are permitted to continue on their way.

    Kinda exciting when the flashed body part belongs to a female..

  11. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    Well, as far as concealed carry, besides the lucky guy who got past security it's tough. They do have the wand metal detectors at the doors, and police officers are present.

    It's not about making money, it's about the fact the the policy appears to violate State law.

    And the law allows for damages and attorney's fees.

    My city had this issue last year. There was an open carry rally in the park across from City Hall. The rally organizers requested permission to hold the rally and it was granted, but they were denied being allowed to bring firearms, which, at the time, violated the City ordinance barring firearms in a city park. They held the rally, brought their firerms anyways, a few citatiosn were ordered.

    Appeals were filed and a hearing was held. At the City level, the citations were upheld by a local judge. The Pro 2A guys appealed and won at the Superior Cort (secodn level) and the city didn't push the issue. Since, the unlawful law has been repealed, as such has in many other Cities since.

    Unfortunately, Gov. Wolf is not a supporter of the gun rights, despite his claims. Nor is our Attorney General, but she's kind of busy with her own legal problems right now.

    Remember, the issue here is that the policy appears to be illegal and should be ended.
  12. lsi1

    lsi1 Member

    as fun as that sounds I'm not getting a prince albert just to go to concerts.
  13. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    Just claim its shrapnel from an old wound. You could even fake up a "doctor's note" on a computer to show them...:p
  14. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

    I checked into that, the 6 weeks ban on
    sexual activity is the only real drawback I could find ;)
  15. lsi1

    lsi1 Member

    I am married I probably wouldn't even notice the 6 week gap.
  16. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    Yea, but look at the bright side... it would give your wrist a chance to heal. :p

  17. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Law suits are expensive and time consuming, for both sides. You MIGHT have standing to sue but, again, expensive and you're not a lawyer so you'll likely be hampered by not knowing the right things to do when and where to make it happen.

    Here in Ohio, we successfully fought a good number of City based anti-gun laws which were invalidated by State preemption laws. The Cities in question flipped the State the big bird and tried to enforce their laws anyway. The Ohioans For Concealed Carry organization, in conjunction with some other related organizations sued and the cities either contested and lost or immediately gave up. But they had to be forced.

    In your position, I'd look for some similar organizations, either at the state level or go national such as the Second Amendment Foundation or NRA-ILA, or both state and national. Contact them, show them your information, explain why you think you have standing, and see if they'll litigate on your behalf.

    Peace favor your sword,
  18. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    Thanks Kirk, that's what I was thinking of doing, but I didn't express that in my posts.

    I know the PA Open Carry crowd was involved in the lawsuit that helped get the public park ordnance overturned. I thought about seeking them out, and/or maybe the lawyer that represented them. His name was mentioned in the news article about it.

    I am not currently an NRA member, but I am thinking of rejoining. Dues go up $10 starting Jan 1 so I want to rejoin before the end of the year. Couldn't help to reach out to them or NAGR or such.

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    IMO don't flame me if you aren't a member of the NRA in this time of insanity and aren't even a gun owner? You still need to join. And that $10 you save? Send it directly to the NRA-ILA fund and send $10 a month to that fund. I do.
  20. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    When the NRA fights to get rid of the Hughes Amendment that THEY did nothing to stop, then I'll join them. Until that time I'll stick with the TSRA. (Texas State Rifle Association)

    FYI - The NRA also fought to BLOCK the DC v Heller case from being heard by SCOTUS. This was one of the most important cases for gun rights.