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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got to thinking last night about the Enfield I got. Honestly it needs nothing but to be shot, but considering its already been sporterized the question I faced was does one continue with it. IE: to spoterize it to my liken... scope, poly stock, bi-pod. I know it seems rather silly as I could pick up any modern day bolt action with that already done for a little over the cost to retrofit this one. But I think I went into it with the "hello relic from yesteryears..meet me" mentality. Kinda like throwing a new edelbrock carb and intake on an old chevy.

I think the only reason I paused to think about it was I spent a good portion of the last two days reading what guys who collect these milsurps feel about them. Lol..it would be like bending a mint condition Babe Ruth baseball card and putting it in my pocket or taping it on a bike to rattle my spokes.

I see some of these guys go through great lengths to bring these back to original from far worse conditions and areas of being sporterized.

lol maybe I am subconsciously pausing so I can say...well at least I pondered about not touching it but well
I had to anyways.

Personally I am not a wood fan. I grew up around wood, we lived with woods all around us, my guns all had wood stocks, our house had lots of wood trim and I had to chop wood. Basically I am just not into it like Norm Abrams and do not orgasm to a tiger grain or relish the high of a fresh coat of poly.

So my real question I guess is for those that have replaced the wood with the poly synthetic stocks, how does it feel?
When you remove the wood history do you steal the soul of the gun or is the soul in the bolt and receiver? lol
 

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The soul of a gun is in the story that it tells you when you hold it for the first time and research the markings. When you inspect every scar that is on it and wonder where they came from. To me a military surplus rifle is way more than an inexpensive way to create a hunting rifle or plinker, to me it is a way to get in touch with a time and era that will never return. To experience shooting the way so many brave soldiers from around the world got to experience it. We are losing our veterans from WW2 everyday, we are never getting them back, saving and restoring these guns makes me feel as though I am helping to save and tell their stories to a future generation. No matter what side the soldiers fought for, they all had one common binding thread, they fought for their countries, ideals and rights which they felt they deserved. That is the main reason that I do not discriminate what types of guns that I collect. In the end, some say it is your rifle to do with what you will but in reality it is not your rifle at all, you are simply the caretaker of a particular gun until another generation acquires it and does the same. These guns outlasted the soldiers that used them and will almost certainly outlast us also. That is my reasoning at least. So yes, try to put it back to original if at all possible. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Damn Krippp ...

In the end, some say it is your rifle to do with what you will but in reality it is not your rifle at all, you are simply the caretaker of a particular gun until another generation acquires it and does the same.
That has to be one of the best lines ever and an extremely convincing statement. I am going to see how it shoots next weekend, even if I decide to continue with sporterizing it, I will go rescue one that is totally original but looking neglected for $104 at my local shop. The shop was a little busy or I would of checked it out in detail but through some of the research I have been doing it looked like a mk3.
 

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IMO it's ok to take an old girl and dress her up. Look how excited and happy your grandma is/was when the family took her to church and then out to lunch and she was dressed in her finest. same with the gun, get the one and keep her original, but dress the other old one up, let her feel good for ahwile.
 

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I found a M44 on the used rack for $60 becuase someone mutilated it and cut off the bayo mounts with a hacksaw and the stock is cut down to look like a modern hunting rifle. It had one of those cheap rail mounts on the rear sight that only atttach with the front pin. A friend gave me a spring and sight blade from his M44 scout. I hope to at least get this sucker to shoot haflway decent with open sights. I might be able to use it for a brush rifle. I also had to give the wood a bit of re-finishing back to the original look. I doesn't look bad now. Not sure if I am going to sink anymore money in it though, may be enough to get her shooting minute of deer.

I guess the point of my post is to finnish what you start. If you are going to chop one of these rifles up, have the decency to finish and make it respectable again.
 

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I'm with krippp on the guns that survive, but if bubba already got to her...well, I wouldn't feel so bad making her into a workable gun, if a real restoration isn't in the cards.
Just don't weld angle iron on her! :mad:
 

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Well...pink angle iron...why didn't you say so in the first place?
That's a whole 'nother ball game there... :angel:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
lol well i have a few ideas brewing if I decide to take the plunge with it after this weekend. I am a little iffy to be honest as the results i have seen look no better then your run of the mill Remington 700 when completed.

I did do a few sketches and measurements though with some different mods leaving the remaining era wood intact. I am thinking M-1919A4 meet Enfield which would allow me to still attach my bipod and optics how I want.
 

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With the strides that have been made in factory production models these days, in terms of accuracy, I do not understand the desire that many people have to sporterize a lot of these surplus rifles. A lot of these rifles were brought home after the War and used for hunting, etc., since they were cheap at the time, and good hunting rifles were harder to come by, but that simply isn't the case these days. My Savage .30-'06 is many times more accurate right out of the box than most military rifles, and was less expensive than I would pay to buy a mil-surp and "properly" sporterize it. With the exception of my Swiss K31, the mil-surp guns I have shot have rarely been what I consider "tack-drivers"... they were designed to be rugged, functional tools that could withstand the rigors of war and still be capable of sending large quantities of lead downrange, with acceptable accuracy.

I currently own a Norinco SKS that someone started sporterizing, replacing the original stock with an ATI monte carlo stock, and the factory receiver cover with a scope mount... I am trying to find a stock and cover to return this rifle to its original condition, but there is nothing I can do to replace the bayonet lug that has been ground off.

I am just awed every time I hold my Mosin, and wonder what it went through to get to me... I look at the arsenal repairs, and the scars on the wood, and try to imagine what the previous owner endured. It is humbling to say the least.
 

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I am just awed every time I hold my Mosin, and wonder what it went through to get to me... I look at the arsenal repairs, and the scars on the wood, and try to imagine what the previous owner endured. It is humbling to say the least.
I feel the same way with my Mosins. It is a very humbling experience...thinking that someone years ago used the rifle I have now to fight for his life.
 

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My bubba's M44 was a 1953 Polish, judging by the bore it sat in cosmoline until the last Bubba had it. The bore is amazing, on it though. Hopefully I can get her shooting. I'm doubt there is much history behind the rifle.
 

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While I relate to the philosophy. I do not consider it gospel. If you have one that is stock and in good condition leave it that way. Or if you want to "sporterize it" go on ahead. Nothing would ever make me forget that this rifle had a story, that it went through war, that it is possibly 50+ years older then me. I guess i'm not a purist in that sense. But still holding it in my hands with or without being "sporterized" still tells me that this rifle has a story that brought it here. I look at my 1911-A1 this way even though its just a reproduced Springfield mil-spec and even though it doesn't have the appeal a more custom 1911 does. Its the philosophy and functionality of it that compels me.
 

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You know i really hate this subforum. It is meant for people who want to sporterize a C&R for whatever reason. It is not meant to convice someone not to do it, but to answer questions about someone who wants to do it. I knew that this was going to happen when it was made. Just another reason to bash someone who wants to do something different. If the gun has no value, no collectible interest, no matching serial numbers, already bubba'd, come on guys, leave it alone. If i want to sporterize my all matching K98 then by God if i want to post a question here on how to mount an airsoft grenade launcher to it I should be able to without fearing the wrath of the HPFF C&R Gods.
 

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Allright roadkill46. first of all, this sub forum wouldn't even exist were it not for me asking for it to be created by Corelogik. I am the staunchest supporter of non-sporterized guns in the world and I am the one that recognized a need for you guys to have a separate place to not come under attack. Not one of the prior posts in this thread has anything to do with bashing. The Op asked a viable question and asked it in the appropriate section of the forum, I am very proud that everybody else has remained civil in their response to his question. Nobody is twisting your arm to make you observe this subsection and frankly, if you are going to misconstrue the posts in here the way you have in this thread, I would rather not read the rants like the one you offered up. The OP asked for peoples opinions, he has gotten a good response of varying opinions, now ask yourself, how much help was your post in answering his question? This subsection is for valid questions about sporterizing topics and will remain as such. Now if you still feel that there is bashing going on, then by all means please point it out to me.


Sincerely,
The Head "HPFF C&R God"
 

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The soul of a gun is in the story that it tells you when you hold it for the first time and research the markings. When you inspect every scar that is on it and wonder where they came from. To me a military surplus rifle is way more than an inexpensive way to create a hunting rifle or plinker, to me it is a way to get in touch with a time and era that will never return. To experience shooting the way so many brave soldiers from around the world got to experience it. We are losing our veterans from WW2 everyday, we are never getting them back, saving and restoring these guns makes me feel as though I am helping to save and tell their stories to a future generation. No matter what side the soldiers fought for, they all had one common binding thread, they fought for their countries, ideals and rights which they felt they deserved. That is the main reason that I do not discriminate what types of guns that I collect. In the end, some say it is your rifle to do with what you will but in reality it is not your rifle at all, you are simply the caretaker of a particular gun until another generation acquires it and does the same. These guns outlasted the soldiers that used them and will almost certainly outlast us also. That is my reasoning at least. So yes, try to put it back to original if at all possible. Just my 2 cents.
i agree with you to the bone,,but also someone posted about being already "bubba'd" than continue,,on that i also agree,,unless as i believe it was mentioned theres a reason not to,,i.e. numbers matching,, rare,,etc, if theres thousands available and their almost giving them away then sportsterize away one,,otherwise i say restore,, good posts for the most part in my opinion!
 

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roadkill46,
If you don't like listening to the same sermon look for another church. There are other mil surplus forums that don't give you the gospel.
To me if it's already been moded you can do what you want with it.
The history will always be part of the weapon.
I read at another forum why you shouldn't refinish the stock if it's not broken. The finish has 50+ years of blood sweat and tears. Not to mention traces of dirt and grime from every country it been marched through.

Is it ok to refinish the rifle to make it better looking if your stripping away all that history? Does it disrespect the men that held it and fought with it?

I'd like to think I'm improving the weapon not destroying it.
I spent years in the service and did minor mods to make my weapons more reliable and accurate.
I'd like to think I have a right to do what I want with my weapons. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.
 

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Anyone that buys a milsurp rifle has their own reasons and motivation for doing it. God knows they are not only reliable, but accurate enough to put meat on the table.

Personally, I believe that everyone has "reasonable right to personal property", meaning they have the right to do whatever the heck they want with what belongs to them. That's just my $0.02, and of course, your beliefs may differ.

As far as I am concerned, if Comrade Mosin wanted his gun to lie in a polymer, monte carlo stock, he'd have built it with one. Mine came with crappy wood stocks and that's how they'll stay, damned the consequences.
 

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Well, I'm another heretic. If I had a rifle that I could actually trace to some person or situation, I'd keep it stock and not make any changes. But none of my seven Mosins have any distinguishing marks on them other than the serial numbers (where they haven't been scrubbed). I'm not going to do anyting to my 91/59, M44, or M38, because if I ever have to sell them they'll bring a better price in their original state. But the other four 91/30s are nothing remarkable. If I thought one was an above average to excellent shooter, I'd have no problem tapping it for a scope and making it a long range shooter.

I've run into the philosophy of "We don't own these XXX (enter your favorite collectable), we're just safekeeping them for future generations". For a rifle I'd ask, "Who carried? Where was it used? How did it and it's owner distinguish themselves? What makes this rifle different from that one?" Being old doesn't make it precious to me. One of over 17,000,000 produced doesn't make it anything other than a tool to me. I know I'm in the minority, but I'm one of those people you have to impress. Give me SOMEthing to say this rifle is a piece of history other than it's 70 years old.

But, that's just Mark the Heretic talkin'.....
 

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It is reasons like the ones listed in the post above this one that almost make me wish these guns weren't for sale. "what makes this rifle different from that one?" , well it is the not knowing the entire history that makes each one different. It was a tool at one time, an implement for defense and destruction, after it's service life was over it became a reminder of the mistakes, courage, and honor of man. If you ask what makes one rifle from a war different from another, well then you must say the same thing about the veterans who used such weapons, what makes them different. It is this type of indifference to history that is causing relics of the past to be destroyed and forgotten everyday. You want something to separate it from the other 17 million, well they aren't making them any more, they were built for battle and they were built far superior to any rifle mass produced today. A tool is a damn hammer on sale at home depot. There is a reason that the license from the ATF, that enables me to grab as many as I want, is called a COLLECTORS license, not a tool mans license. If the age and fact that it has survived the decades to provide our generation with a physical link to our history doesn't impress you then sadly I ask, what will? Why in the hell does it have to be specifically special, what it is should be special enough for someone not to bastardize the gun. And as far as your M91/30's not being anything special, they are more special than any carbine length Mosin ever was. The carbines like the M38 and M44, were not nearly as prevalent in battle as the M91/30 was. And the M91/59, well no one can accurately decipher where these were done but they are cut down M91/30's that obviously still filled a purpose 68 years after the original Mosin was built. Mus be something special about a rifle that even now, 118 years after the first one was built, that allows them to still be considered viable battle rifles and kept as secondary rifles in some countries reserve arsenals.

I don't mind anybody voicing their opinions on this subject, this isn't my forum and I wouldn't want to infringe on anyone's freedom of speech, but seriously, take a step back and really think about what it is you are holding and who might have held it before you.
 
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