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Socialized medicine could be the best thing to ever happen to this country, and the effects would be felt in many more far reaching places then people might expect.

Dave
 

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Socialized medicine could be the best thing to ever happen to this country, and the effects would be felt in many more far reaching places then people might expect.

Dave
I disagree on one ground only, but it is a biggee to me. When there is no competition for customers, then quality drops.

When doctors realize that they don't have to be good to get patients, then the level of care (the quality) drop. Sad, but true. Look in nearly any VA hospital, or county hospital(read free). The level and quality of care is less than that of a place that isn't state, or county funded.

As long as there is an option to see, or have my family seen by who I think is the best, then i will pay more. That should be a right that is never taken away. It is my choice who i want to be treated by, and i should be able to feel comfortable that doctor is doing all he can for me and my family.

I truly believe that with socialized medicine we will lose what little caring there is now by medical professionals.

NO one will ever convince me that socialized medicine is better for me or my kids.

off the soapbox now.. deep sigh...
 

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Socialized medicine could be the best thing to ever happen to this country, and the effects would be felt in many more far reaching places then people might expect.

Dave
I disagree on one ground only, but it is a biggee to me. When there is no competition for customers, then quality drops.

When doctors realize that they don't have to be good to get patients, then the level of care (the quality) drop. Sad, but true. Look in nearly any VA hospital, or county hospital(read free). The level and quality of care is less than that of a place that isn't state, or county funded.

As long as there is an option to see, or have my family seen by who I think is the best, then i will pay more. That should be a right that is never taken away. It is my choice who i want to be treated by, and i should be able to feel comfortable that doctor is doing all he can for me and my family.

I truly believe that with socialized medicine we will lose what little caring there is now by medical professionals.

NO one will ever convince me that socialized medicine is better for me or my kids.

off the soapbox now.. deep sigh...
I agree to a point, but if we look at the european example, particularly in some of the original democracys like france, then we actually see an improved level of care. In my case, (I fell 35 feet to the dirt at work on a construction site), after a year, they would just be beginning to talk about the next steps to returning to work. In our system of work comp. ins. I got three weeks before they were pushing me to do more then my body could handle, and after a year of complaining about back pain and being told it was just "sore from the impact", I finally got an mri and found a herniated disk and bone fragments lodged in my spine. From the stories I have heard from friends who have moved over seas, this never would have happened. Workmans comp is no better if not worse then any VA or County hospital I have ever had to deal with.

The european example also gives us the thought that personal choice can still be maintained, as you pick the doctor you see, and while they are paid by the government, if they are crappy, no one will go to see them, and then they will be forced out of business.

I am not saying that it is perfect, but it would be a huge step in the right direction, and could help countless people who have a huge debt burden (which negatively impacts EVERYRTHING in a capitalist society), because they were unfortunate enough to be injured with or without medical insurance, and don't make millions of dollars a year.

D
 

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There will always be a certain percentage of the populace that will want the same benefits, but do not, or will not contribute to the fund where all this would be funded from.
But it is my personal belief that when the same benefits are available to all regardless of how hard or how little you work, then those who do all the work and do all the contributing will soon tire of seeing others getting the same benefits, without having earned them. Then they will want to not contribute anymore. It would only be fair! Once that reaches critical mass where no one contributes anymore, what then?

I see it as walking on the razor's edge with grease covered shoes. Far too slippery!

BTW, Bill O'Reilly was on Rachael Ray today and explained this very well.

This is also the big reason why i do not believe in Unions. In todays workplace they are no longer needed. Today, they allow slackers and goof-offs to get paid the same, and in some cases rewarded the same, as those who bust their asses, and take pride in their work.

Not good for anyone. Not good for this Country, IMO!
 

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Socialized medicine could be the best thing to ever happen to this country, and the effects would be felt in many more far reaching places then people might expect.

Dave
I disagree on one ground only, but it is a biggee to me. When there is no competition for customers, then quality drops.

When doctors realize that they don't have to be good to get patients, then the level of care (the quality) drop. Sad, but true. Look in nearly any VA hospital, or county hospital(read free). The level and quality of care is less than that of a place that isn't state, or county funded.

As long as there is an option to see, or have my family seen by who I think is the best, then i will pay more. That should be a right that is never taken away. It is my choice who i want to be treated by, and i should be able to feel comfortable that doctor is doing all he can for me and my family.

I truly believe that with socialized medicine we will lose what little caring there is now by medical professionals.

NO one will ever convince me that socialized medicine is better for me or my kids.

off the soapbox now.. deep sigh...
I wholeheartedly agree, and also served in the Navy so I know what you are talking about. Unfortunately on here explaining things from a logical conservative viewpoint is like farting in the wind, it feels good, but all ya get is a sh*t smell blown back at ya!
 

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I disagree on one ground only, but it is a biggee to me. When there is no competition for customers, then quality drops.

When doctors realize that they don't have to be good to get patients, then the level of care (the quality) drop. Sad, but true. Look in nearly any VA hospital, or county hospital(read free). The level and quality of care is less than that of a place that isn't state, or county funded.
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but I have two issues with it:

1: Doctors already don't have to compete. As long as they accept insurance, they will get patients. Their real customers are the insurance companies, as long as they keep them happy, patients will come.

2: VA and free county hospitals are crappy because they are the only option for their clients. Its not that they are socialized, its that they represent the "only choice" for a lot of people. When you are the only choice, you don't have to try very hard. Doubly so for VA hospitals because soldiers medical choices can by tied to their chain of command.

That said, I totally agree that whatever solution this country comes up with has to include competition. In a perfect world we'd compete on price and quality, I hope we get there some day.
 

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we going to do this again?

Yeah, the UK banned that drug. They also say "poppycock", I dont want to say poppy cock, so we shouldn't speak english.
That's kinda harsh, one word and you would get rid of english? And its not even one of the seven words you can't say on T.V.( I know it was sarcasm, just saying)
Anyway the reason I keep going to that is that I have never seen that happen with privatized health care. Because if people want the drug they shouldn't have to worry whether or not their government can afford it. Then they have no control over whether or not they can get their medication. It would work somewhat better if it was like England where they still pay for it but at the same time I know for a fact their medical system is still not as advanced as ours simply because it is state ran. My half brother who is British had an infection on his arm from a tattoo he also has type one diabetes, and because they didn't have the proper equipment for the surgery he has a scar covering more than half of his forearm, if he had been here that would have been avoided.
 

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2: VA and free county hospitals are crappy because they are the only option for their clients. Its not that they are socialized, its that they represent the "only choice" for a lot of people. When you are the only choice, you don't have to try very hard. Doubly so for VA hospitals because soldiers medical choices can by tied to their chain of command.
I understand this, but i didn't say they were socialized, only that the level of care is sadly lower because they don't have to compete. That's all.
 

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That's kinda harsh, one word and you would get rid of english? And its not even one of the seven words you can't say on T.V.( I know it was sarcasm, just saying)
Anyway the reason I keep going to that is that I have never seen that happen with privatized health care. Because if people want the drug they shouldn't have to worry whether or not their government can afford it. Then they have no control over whether or not they can get their medication. It would work somewhat better if it was like England where they still pay for it but at the same time I know for a fact their medical system is still not as advanced as ours simply because it is state ran. My half brother who is British had an infection on his arm from a tattoo he also has type one diabetes, and because they didn't have the proper equipment for the surgery he has a scar covering more than half of his forearm, if he had been here that would have been avoided.
The UK's system is strictly public only, they don't allow a co-existing private system. If we someday decided to go the social medicine route, there's no reason that we'd have to do that. If we decided to implement a social healthcare system, we could learn from the pros and the cons of other places.

All the things you are describing happen in our current healthcare system though. If insurance won't pay for something, it may as well be illegal for a lot of people, because its too expensive to have. If insurance doesn't cover a certain hospital with the right equipment, people settle for inadequate care or no care at all.
 

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2: VA and free county hospitals are crappy because they are the only option for their clients. Its not that they are socialized, its that they represent the "only choice" for a lot of people. When you are the only choice, you don't have to try very hard. Doubly so for VA hospitals because soldiers medical choices can by tied to their chain of command.
I understand this, but i didn't say they were socialized, only that the level of care is sadly lower because they don't have to compete. That's all.
Sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying,

My opinion is that they are socialized, and that its a really crappy implementation of social medicine.
 

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That's kinda harsh, one word and you would get rid of english? And its not even one of the seven words you can't say on T.V.( I know it was sarcasm, just saying)
Anyway the reason I keep going to that is that I have never seen that happen with privatized health care. Because if people want the drug they shouldn't have to worry whether or not their government can afford it. Then they have no control over whether or not they can get their medication. It would work somewhat better if it was like England where they still pay for it but at the same time I know for a fact their medical system is still not as advanced as ours simply because it is state ran. My half brother who is British had an infection on his arm from a tattoo he also has type one diabetes, and because they didn't have the proper equipment for the surgery he has a scar covering more than half of his forearm, if he had been here that would have been avoided.
The UK's system is strictly public only, they don't allow a co-existing private system. If we someday decided to go the social medicine route, there's no reason that we'd have to do that. If we decided to implement a social healthcare system, we could learn from the pros and the cons of other places.

All the things you are describing happen in our current healthcare system though. If insurance won't pay for something, it may as well be illegal for a lot of people, because its too expensive to have. If insurance doesn't cover a certain hospital with the right equipment, people settle for inadequate care or no care at all.
This is very true:

When I was a teenager back home, I rolled an ATV and broke my leg. Had to be taken by air ambulance to a local hospital and have surgery to make sure it healed straight. In a cast for just shy of 2 months, and several checkups. Cost to my family:

400 pounds total, and that was mainly the painkillers and antibiotics and some various bits of paperwork fees.

In the US, an incident like that would cost over $50,000 with transport, hospital stay, surgery costs and follow up care. Also, while some of the follow up appointments took FOREVER to book, the treatment, response by the EMS and surgeons were all top not quality and there when I needed it. Some of the most stand-up men and women I feel.

Fast-forward to today: I have been denied from 4 hospitals for cancer treatment, because I cannot prove the ability to pay the ENTIRE bill up front due to lack of insurance. I sold my SUV, all my firearms, two laptops and my Smallframe Vespa project in order to get a firm diagnosis in fall of last year, and that cost me $15,000.

Some state how "evil" socialized medicine is without ever living in a country with a program like that in place. Yes, the taxes are higher, but when "corporate, free market" health insurance costs $400/month AND can deny you for any reason if they feel you're too much of a financial risk, you begin to wonder.

It may not work for some of you, but this "Free market" form of healthcare in the US where hospitals get kickbacks from drug manufacturers and one night in the hospital can cost as much as a new BMW motorcycle is pretty much telling me that if I can't shell out the cash up front so THEY don't have to risk their bottom line, I won't get treatment. I can't even establish a credit line or get a loan, because banks don't loan on medical procedures in the US. I can buy a shiny new car from a failing auto company and get tons of new bonuses and rebates from everyone because that's the "American" thing to do, but a loan and assistance to save my life? Sorry.... that's a path to "socialized" medicine and we can't have that.

Their ledgers are going to be a bit more stable, but treating a patient with cancer? Only if it's convienent to their immediate pocketbooks. I'll be honest: If it means my life or having to support a medical system where the doctors make so much money that 3 weeks of their salary could save my life, but they won't do it because they have stock portfolios to maintain, I very well might return to the UK. I have paid my taxes in both countries and I'll be honest: I get more for my money over there. Yes, some say they're "evil" because they don't have the right to bear arms and CCTV cameras everywhere.... but is that kind of oppression different than a few rich medical versions of "robber barons" who are endorsing you to get $50k in debt for a shiny SUV but won't let you make payments on your life? For me, it is not at this point.

For some of you guys, "socialized" medicine is just another "un-American" ideal in your view. To many Americans here... it might be the only way we can survive. It is getting to the point that I will not have any choice if some other option doesn't occur very soon.

This isn't a statement of "I'm right, you're wrong". It's a statement from someone who has lived under a Socialized healthcare system.
 

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This isn't a statement of "I'm right, you're wrong". It's a statement from someone who has lived under a Socialized healthcare system.
+1 Experience goes a lot further than conjecture or speculative fear-mongering
 

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Here it is plain and simple for me. My girlfriend works her ass off every day, has a college degree and still cant afford to go to the dentist, doctor or get any other medical attention, simply just cant afford it. She stretches her budget so thin that often I have to help her with groceries. If she gets hurt realy bad she would be completely screwed. I on the other hand am of Native American ancestry. I have full 100% medical coverage do to the fact that Native Nmericans (chickasaws/choctaws anyway) have socialised health care for their people. It works. I dont have to worry about it, I dont have to pay the rediculous amount for the insurance that my job offers. I believe that everyone should be able to get health care.
 

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True just sayin' my brother lives under that system and it jacked him up really well.
 

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Invariably, SOMEONE is not going to approve of ANY system that is put in place. Heck, there are people who are petitioning the government to ban ALL cell phones and wireless internet because the radiation causes cancer!! (granted no one has been able to prove that long term or in pure fact..). Others think that ALL aftermarket auto accessories should be banned because they encourage reckless driving and road rage, leading to killings!

Nope. Not making these guys up...

But the point is, there is no "perfect" system. But, living in the US, we have the ability to adapt this society unlike other nations. It was made with that ability in mind. Just because it's broken does not mean it can't be fixed, and tweaked as well after the fixing :)
 
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