Some honest discussion on .357 Mag carbines?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by mr_flintstone, May 17, 2018 at 4:12 PM.

  1. mr_flintstone

    mr_flintstone Supporting Member

    I’ll admit that I bought my Henry .357 Big Boy because I thought they look cool, and I already had guns in the caliber. After a while, I began to wonder how effective the .357 carbine was. As it turns out, they aren’t anything to sneeze at. Looking at reloading data, you can get within about 200-300 FPS of some comparable weight 30-30 factory loads. I haven’t tested all the load data, but I have no doubt that it is fairly close to accurate. The big thing, I think, with using the .357 magnum for hunting would be the bigger cross section limiting the distance.

    Give me some honest opinions about using .357 mag from a carbine for hunting within, let’s say, 100 yards or so. Is it viable? Will it humanely kill deer sized animals?
     
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  2. eldarbeast

    eldarbeast Supporting Member

    Yes. Especially when using a scope and 158 grain jacketed semi wadcutters.
    I've hunted deer with a six inch barrel .357 Magnum revolver using semi jacketed wadcutters and a long eye relief scope to 75 yards with total success.

    The carbine with scope would be icing on the cake.

    eldar
     

  3. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Absolutely acceptable.

    You get more energy from lighter faster bullets in the .357, but they are still going to be slightly lower than typical 150 grain 30-30 numbers. If you use 150 grain weight bullets in both guns, the .357 carbine loses even more ground, but is still respectable, and you might be able to argue in the case of the .357 that penetration and weight retention are better in a heavier bullet than the 125 grain hi speed units.

    Regardless, they will kill deer. I’ve read over 1000 ft lbs for the 125 grain .357 in a carbine, and around 800 from some of the 150 grain loads. Of course, if you load your own, you could easily top that.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018 at 2:11 AM
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  4. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    I do not have a 357 magnum carbine. My token 357 is a 3" GP100. I do have a friend who hunts with a Marlin 1894 in 357, and both of my brothers and another friend use 357 magnum revolvers. I use a 44 Magnum and my middle brother usually leaves his 357 at home and uses a 44 Magnum as well.

    All that said, the 357 can play at deer/pig hunting with limitations. It's an adequate within 100 yards or so cartridge out of the carbine, as attested by my 357 carbine toting friend who generally takes two or three deer a year with his. Nice light and handy woods gun.

    FWIW, none of the 4 will use hollow points to hunt with. My brother's use 158 grain soft points and my Blackhawk and Marlin toting friends use 180 grain soft points. The hollow points lack penetration.

    My pet load for the 3" GP100 is a 125 grain hollowpoint, and while I think it is perfect for social work, I also would not hunt with it.

    And don't kid yourself thinking that the 357 in a carbine is almost the equivalent of the 30-30 Winchester. It is not. My 22" Barreled H&R will send the Hornady 160 grain FTX out of the muzzle at 2450 fps. My 16" barreled Mossberg brush gun sends the same bullet out of it's muzzle at 2200 fps. Quite a bit faster than the 18" 357 carbine will push a 158 grain bullet out of it's muzzle.

    All this said, a 357 Magnum Carbine is on my short list. Maybe a Ruger 77/357, but more likely one of the new Marlin stainless and laminate carbines. A H&R Handi Rifle if I could find one at a reasonable price. Of course it would promptly get reamed to 357 Maximum.

    Hornady makes a 140 grain FTX 357 Magnum with a claimed muzzle velocity of 1850 fps out of a 18" Barrell. This will be my preferred load. Matter of fact when my LGS went out of business, I bought his entire stock of 140 grain 357 FTX and 160 grain 30-30 FTX bullets!
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018 at 5:49 AM
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  5. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I had friends down in Arkansas who used a .357 Mag carbine for deer hunting. They were able to put meat in the freezer with it.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  6. mr_flintstone

    mr_flintstone Supporting Member

    The fastest handload data that I've found puts the 357 carbine at about 65% (at best) of quality factory load 30-30 (like Remington Core-Lokt etc.. ) energy. It appears that the best 357 energies come from cast bullets in the 140-158 gr range.
     
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  7. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    I agree with this 100%.
     
  8. shepherd321

    shepherd321 Supporting Member

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    When I needed to get a Winchester Trapper, I ended up with the 30/30. But then I'd never hunt deer with a 357 mag. Trying to get 15 boxes of deer rounds tomorrow, 300wm 180gr. Never too dead. O and soon the 358 win so I will be able to shoot 158 gr 357 bullets
     
  9. colthrash

    colthrash Supporting Member

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    9mm is more powerful than 30/30... everyone talks about 357 in a rifle, anyone else ever shoot a 30/30 break action pistol?
     
  10. colthrash

    colthrash Supporting Member

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    I was 12 or 13 at the time, it had a small bipod, and the scope was as long as the barrel. Looked similar to the Thompson contender...
     
  11. colthrash

    colthrash Supporting Member

    572
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  12. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    I don't have the funds and the know how. Eventually the bullet mfr's will wake up and make some boat tail 9mm, 40, and 45 projectiles.
     
  13. eldarbeast

    eldarbeast Supporting Member

    Why?

    None of the calibers you state have a fast enough velocity unless the manufacturers use base bleed rounds...

    eldar
     
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  14. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    I had no idea you were an aeronautical engineer! At what diameter, and what velocity is the tipping point? My thought was pointier rounds less aerodynamic drag and more stability for tighter groups.

    inquiring TrashyB
     
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  15. eldarbeast

    eldarbeast Supporting Member

    I'm not but, I did sleep at a Holiday Inn.

    Boat tailed projectiles work best at velocities above 2200 fps.
    Even the M-1 Carbine's 110 grain JRN misses the mark by only travelling 1950 fps.

    eldar
     
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  16. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    No they won’t. Aside from the point elder made, the rounds are usually too short for that, they wouldn’t have enough contact surface holding them into the cases.

    Not to mention...they aren’t really supposed to be shot at distances where aerodynamics matter that much.

    That said, Hornady XTP’s have some boat tail in them...but it’s only in the longest 147 grain bullet, and it’s BARELY a boat tail.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018 at 2:46 AM
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  17. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    More like an incidental chamfer than a functional boat tail.
     
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  18. Yep, and a 35 Remington, and a 45-70....
     
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  19. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    Actually boat tail pistol bullets do exist. Or at least, did exist. The 7.63x25 Mauser as used in the the C96 Broomhandle pistol used boat tail bullet. Paul Mauser also designed a boat tail bullet for the 9 mm cartridge just before the start of WW1. I couldn't find an example of the 7.63x25 bullet, but here are a couple of pictures of the 9mm design. 1-127.jpg DWM487Candbltw-480C.jpg
     
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  20. Dane

    Dane + unkown number of likes Supporting Member

    Last edited: May 20, 2018 at 10:08 PM
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