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http://www.endtimesroundtable.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=16135

This is a Line by line outline of the Health Care Bill..

The following is a brief outline of this bill put together by Mat Staver of the Freedom Foundation and Liberty Counsel (contact info is at the end). The comments by the brief are Mat's.

After reading, please do not wait to contact your representatives to protest this. If you don't get through, keep calling, send emails, but do not stop until you know your voice has been heard. And please get this message out to everyone you know.

Obama Health Care Plan Details

HR 3200 currently under consideration in the House of Representatives

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit the books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your benefits for you. You have no choice!

Pg 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Gov't will have real-time access to individual's finances & a National ID Health care card will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks accts for electronic funds transfer.

Pg 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring priv HC plans under Govt control.

Pg 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private Health Care plans in the Exchange

Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

Pg 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services.

Example - Translation for illegal aliens.

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - Your Health Care WILL be rationed

Pg 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individual will be automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Govt on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make. (What kind of doctors are we going to have when the government tells them what they can make?)

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. (This will kill small business in America)

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer w/ payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

Pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesnt provide public opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay for legal and illegal immigrants).

Pg 195 Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial and personal records.

Pg 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that. Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, it does not matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same. (So why go to additional schooling to get more education and into a specialty when you are paid the same as a general practitioner?)

Pg 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans.

Pg 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Pg 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Pg 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable re-admissions. (Incentives for hospital to not treat and release.)

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission-Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates established of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans (Part B), HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. HC by phone/Internet?

Pg 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance [Death] Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

Pg 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Gov't provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

Pg 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Gov't has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Pg 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may incl an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life

(The above really does give the government the authority to determine who lives and dies, and when. A government bureaucrat really will be making this decision for you and your loved ones.)

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Pg 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

Pg 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. They will insert Government into your marriage. Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those svcs

PG 502 Sec 1181 Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research Established. - Hello Big Brother - Literally.

Pg 503 Lines 13-19 Gov't will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic med records.

Pg 503 lines 21-25 Gov't may secure data directly from any depart or agency of the US including your data.

Pg 504 Lines 6-10 The "Center" will collect data both published & unpublished (that means public & your private info)

PG 506 Lines 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that would allow for public access of data.

PG 518 Lines 21-25 The Commission will have input from HC consumer reps - Can you say unions & ACORN?

PG 524 18-22 Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund set up. More taxes for ALL.

PG 621 Lines 20-25 Gov't will define what Quality means in HC. Since when does Gov't know about quality?

Pg 622 Lines 2-9 To pay for the Quality Standards, Govt will transfer $$ from to other Govt Trust Funds. More Taxes.

PG 624 "Quality" measures shall be designed to assess outcomes & functional status of patients.

PG 624 "Quality" measures shall be designed to profile you including race, age, gender, place of residence, etc

Pg 628 Sec 1443 Gov't will give "Multi-Stake Holders" Pre-Rule Making input into Selection of "Quality" Measures.

Pg 630 9-24/631 1-9 Those Multi-stake holder groups incl. Unions & groups like ACORN deciding HC quality.

Pg 632 Lines 14-25 The Gov't may implement any "Quality measure" of HC Services as they see fit.

PG 633 14-25/ 634 1-9 The Secretary may issue non-endorsed "Quality Measures" for Physician Services & Dialysis Services.

Pg 635 to 653 Physicians Payments Sunshine Provision - Gov't wants to shine sunlight on Docs but not Govt.

Pg 654-659 Public Reporting on Health Care-Associated Infections - Looks okay.

PG 660-671 Doctors in Residency - Gov't will tell you where your residency will be, thus where you'll live.

Pg 676-686 Gov't will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of residency programs, incl. teaching hospitals.

Pg 686-700 Increased Funding to Fight Waste, Fraud, and Abuse. You mean like the Gov't with an $18 million website?

PGs 701-704 Sec 1619 If your part of HC plan isn't in Gov't HC Exchange but you qualify for Fed aid, no payment.

PG 705-709 SEC. 1128 If Secr gets complaints (ACORN) on HC provider or supplier, Gov't can do background check.

PG 711 Lines 8-14 The Secretary has broad powers to deny HC providers/ suppliers admittance into HC Exchange. Your doctor could be thrown out of business.

Pg 719-720 Sec 1637 ANY Doctor who orders durable med equip or home med services MUST be enrolled in Medicare.

PG 722 Sec 1639 Gov't MANDATES Doctors must have face to face with patient to certify patient for Home Health Svcs.

PG 724 23-25 PG 725 1-5 The same Gov't certifications will apply to Medicaid & CHIP (your kids)

PG 724 Lines 16-22 Gov't reserves rt to apply face to face certification for patient to ANY other HC service.

Pg 735 lines 16-25 For law enforce. proposes the Secretary-HHS will give Atty General access to ALL data.

PG 740-757 Gov't sets guidelines for subsidizing the uninsured (Thats your tax dollars people)

Pg 757-762 Fed gov't will shift burden of payments to Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) to States. (Taxes)

Pg 763 1-8 No DS/EA hospitals will be paid unless they provide services without regard to national origin

Pg 765 Sec 1711 Gov't will require Preventative Services including vaccines. (Mandatory vaccines? I don't think so....)

Pg 768 Sec 1713 Gov't - Nurse Home Visitation Svcs (Hello union paybacks)

Pg 769 11-14 Nurse Home Visit Svcs include-economic self-sufficiency, employ adv, school-readiness.

Pg 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Services - "increasing birth intervals between pregnancies." Govt ABORTIONS anyone

Pg 770 SEC 1714 Fed Gov't mandates eligibility for State Family Planning Services. Abortion & State Sovereign.

Pg 789-797 Gov't will set, mandate drug prices, controlling which drugs brought to market. Bye innovation.

Pgs 797-800 SEC. 1744 PAYMENTS for graduate medical education. The government will now control Drs' education.

PG 801 Sec 1751 The Govt will decide which Health care conditions will be paid. Say RATION!

Pg 810 SEC. 1759. Billing Agents, clearinghouses, etc req. to register. Gov't takes over private payment sys.

Pg 820-824 Sec 1801 Govt will identify individ. ineligible for subsidies. Will access all personal financial information.

Pg 824-829 SEC. 1802. Govt Sets up Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund. Another tax black hole.

PG 829-833 Gov't will impose a fee on ALL private health ins. plans incl. self insured to pay for Trust Fund!

PG 835 11-13 fees imposed by Gov't for Trust Fund shall be treated as if they were taxes.

Pg 838-840 Gov't will design & implement Home Visitation Program for families with young kids & families expect kids. (They will be able to come into your home at any time without notice and decide if you are raising your children to their expectations and if not? Well, you fill in the rest!)

PG 844-845 This Home Visitation Prog. includes Gov't coming into your house & telling you how to parent!!!

Pg 859 Gov't will establish a Public Health Fund at a cost of $88,800,000,000. Yes that's Billion. (Who is going to pay for this? You and I will be.)

Pg 865 The Gov't will MANDATE the establishment of a National Health Service Corps.

PG 865 to 876 The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform mandatory HC for 2yrs for part loan repayment.

PG 876-892 The govt takes over the education of our Med students and Drs.

PG 898 The Govt will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps to ensure supply of public health prof.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of officers of Regular & Reserve Corps of Service.

PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians.

PG 901 The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL include commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HC Draft?

PG 910 The Govt will develop, build & run Public Health Training Centers.

PG 913-914 Govt starts a HC affirmative action program thru guise of diversity scholarships.

PG 915 SEC. 2251. Govt MANDDATES Cultural & linguistic competency training for HC professionals.

Pg 932 The Govt will estab Preventative & Wellness Trust fund- initial cost of $30,800,000,000-Billion.

PG 935 21-22 Govt will identify specific goals & objectives for prevention & wellness activities. Control YOU!!

PG 936 Govt will develop "Healthy People & National Public Health Perform. Standards" Tell me what to eat?

PG 942 Lines 22-25 More Gov't? Offices of Surgeon General -Public Health Svc, Minority Health, Women's Health

PG 950- 980 BIG GOV'T core pub health infrastructure including workforce capacity, lab systems; health info sys, etc

PG 993 Gov't will establish school based health clinics. Your kids won't have a chance.

PG 994 School Based Health Clinic will be integrated into the school environment. Say GOVT Brainwash!

PG 1001 The Govt will establish a National Medical Device Registry. Will you be tracked?

Mathew D. Staver*
Founder and Chairman Dean and Professor of Law
Liberty Counsel Liberty University School of Law
Offices in Florida, Virginia and the District of Columbia, Lynchburg, Virginia
(800) 671-1776 - Telephone (434) 592-5300 - Telephone
www.LC.org
www.law.liberty.edu

crmann
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I was pretty sure this was written by Peter Fleckstein via twitter. At least it is when it's posted on EconomicPolicyJournal.com here's the link, http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2009/07/whats-in-healthacre-bill.html

note that the two are the same, until the above link ends around pg 494.

So who is this Matt Staver?
I don't have a clue who he or Peter Fleckstein is.

Maybe they used similar sources.

Edited to add:

The two articles are very similar up to page 498, I'll try to find a few more sources. I know the info about this health bill is out there I just can't seem to be able to find out to much about it.
 

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Pg 58HC Bill – Gov’t will have real-time access to individual’s finances & a National ID Health care card will be issued!

Theres the National Id card they have been after for 40 years with all the trimmings. I am exercising all the restraint I have to keep my head from exploding.

Anyone that promotes this abomination for any reason is not just misguided but an enemy of all of us who think freedom is not a bargaining chip.
 

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Personally I say to heck with national ID cards, where's my tattoed serial number? :wideeyed: :no: :reallysad:
 

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Real time access to your finances......I think with people this may be the final straw. That and more in this bill need to publicized as much as possible.
They already have this. Have ya ever filed your taxes and went with Electronic Deposit for your refund? If so ya pretty much gave them all your banking information. All us government employees have most certainly given over our banking information via direct deposit, and to a lesser extent so has every other person enrolled in direct deposit.

Rumor has it they know your address, DL number, SS number too!
 

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Real time access to your finances......I think with people this may be the final straw. That and more in this bill need to publicized as much as possible.
They already have this. Have ya ever filed your taxes and went with Electronic Deposit for your refund? If so ya pretty much gave them all your banking information. All us government employees have most certainly given over our banking information via direct deposit, and to a lesser extent so has every other person enrolled in direct deposit.

Rumor has it they know your address, DL number, SS number too!
That however does not give them real time access to your finances, all that authorizes them to do is deposit that check into your account. I would need their definition of exactly what "real time access" means in this context. Just because the govt has info on me doesn't give them "access" to my finances. Also they need to define what they mean by "finances" too, does that mean they can plug into my credit cards, 401k's etc.?
 

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I love how paranoid and fear-motivated people automatically interpret bills in the most frightening way possible.

But we needed the Patriot Act to be "safe", right?
Actually I think it is a very small portion of the population who do that with the bills.

They cross reference directly with the Glen Beck audience numbers LOL
 

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Actually I think it is a very small portion of the population who do that with the bills.

They cross reference directly with the Glen Beck audience numbers LOL
Yeah, you're exactly right. Which is still kind of a shame.

If I could stand to read legislative writing, I'd go and find some random bills and see how much and how hilariously I can misinterpret them.
 

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I love how paranoid and fear-motivated people automatically interpret bills in the most frightening way possible.

But we needed the Patriot Act to be "safe", right?
Yes, because all of us here are praising the merits of the Patriot Act. Your strawman is a fail of epic proportions. Try again when you have something beside Huffington Post talking points.
 

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I love how paranoid and fear-motivated people automatically interpret bills in the most frightening way possible.

But we needed the Patriot Act to be "safe", right?
Well I didn't mention the Patriot act and I'm not paranoid. I listen to what people say and I don't like the idea we have elected someone who wants to "fundamentally change this country" This is America you can believe what you want to believe. The most common phrase soldiers have is you never hear the bullet that kills you. Maybe you should start listening to what Obama says. Not my interpretation, not any of the talking conservative heads or liberal sycophants. LISTEN to what Obama says and has said. I'm done trying to pull lemmings away from the leader..at least its a nice view on the way down.
 

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Obviously we have a few very programmed leftists here of late. Nice catch on the Huffington talking points, I just cant stand to go there long enough to find out what marching orders are being issued. But take heart they are down to strawmen and cynicism since there is no longer any hiding the agenda.

They always fail when asked "Then why is the language in the bill?" since there is no other reason to put it in except to be used. As for the Patriot Act remind them it was passed with great support from the Dems. Only when it became a political issue did they raise any objection. Anyway when we get shed of BOs gang of thugs we can start undoing the rest of the damage as long as we prevent any permanent damage.
 

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Programmed leftists?

Marching orders?

I like reading alot of these forums, but some of you guys are damn near bi-polar in alot of cases.

You talk about freedom, and peoples rights, and liberty, but as soon as someone says something that deviates slightly from your old fashioned, isolationist standpoint, they are part of some organized group lock stepping around to the beat of the drum of pinko commie destruction.

It's rediculous.

Look at who you are talking about. Trying to get a group of liberals to agree on anything, is in fact HARDER than herding cats. It's harder than counting the grains of sand on a beach in a hurricane.

This boogeyman group, your go to name calling blank slate, are so so soooooooooo disperate, and seperated on an individual and values level, they can't agree on anything even when they have a majority in both houses and a president who really does want to make big changes.

They will all commit to big blanket statements that sound good no matter who says them. "We wanna protect children", "We want everyone to be healthy", "We want everyone to be safe".
All you have to do is ask a simple question. "What do you want to protect children from?" In a room with 3 or more real liberals, it will almost turn into a fist fight within 20 minutes.

I think it's because you are so used to repeating the same 20 year old rhetoric, that you don't realize, that the group that taught you that rhetoric, when you were younger and more easily influenced, doesn't exist anymore.
They don't exist cause they set fire to their own house and burned it to the ground playin grab ass with teenage page boys, and cheating on their wives, and lying to their constituents to the point that whole RED sections of the country turned around and voted blue for two elections.

I just hope that I, or my sons, live long enough to see the two party left right mask, pulled off the face of the country. It's a sham. It's been a shame since the 40's, and it seems to be getting, bigger and more insane every year.
It's a scam.

"It's the world, that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you to the truth." -Morpheus(character in a movie made in the 90's)

The truth that Americans, are nothing more, than part of the consumerist system. Americans have united many times to achieve great things. But we spend the most money, when we don't have anything to unite over. So as long as they can keep us seperate, and fighting over rediculous crap, we won't look to see who is behind the curtain, pulling all the strings, and reaping all the profits.
 

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Since you are confused let me try and explain it for you.

What you see as intolerance of other ideas is in reality the ability to discriminate between right and wrong. We are not bound to listen to or give weight to just any idea you want to throw out there especially such failed and intolerable concepts as socialism and marxism. Well pardon me they are actually the same concept put forth by people so frightened of life they cannot find it within themselves to govern themselves so must seek tyrants to do so. And once they have this they begin to decry how horridly the tyrants treat them. Pardon me but DUH!

As for us detecting the organized attempts to lead this country into that failed system, it is just an obvious reality at this point since even BO has dropped all pretense and is actively perusing a socialist agenda. You are surprised that we would react accordingly to a threat of this magnitude? Hell we should have started raising cane with FDR when it started in earnest.

We rejoice in the ineptitude of most liberals, it is our only bright spot in a bleak landscape at the moment. But that does not prevent them from doing horrid damage to our country and even our survival. Because of the foolishness of the Republicans and the so called moderates we find ourselves in the dire situation of just attempting to prevent serious permanent damage to our land.

Your system requires we participate in socialism against our will. If the country were taken in a say libertarian direction it would not prevent you from living as a socialist if you could find any one else silly enough to do so. What the hell do you expect? We want nothing to do with your false utopia thank you.

As for the use of cliches, socialists have been throwing the same ones around since the nineteenth century, as you do even now. Well here is one for you;
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It has been proven true in every case.

Now be witty if you like or blindly argumentative if you will but you will not convince us to accept your foolish pursuit of totalitarianism.
 

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I've never ever tried to convince anyone to accept totalitarianism.

Nothing I have ever posted, suggests what you have in your post. And that's because you only have the one reaction to this kind of thing.
And it's that post you just posted. Over and over and over in these forums by a good number of fella's. Just the same line over and over.

And marxism! Good god man! It's not even the 80's anymore and that line was dated even then. It's dust right now.

Alot of people raised cane when FDR started it. So I assume you have never used a Highway? Or a national park? or a sanitation system, or water resevoir that was started from that socialism.

Of course you have. You just refuse to acknowledge that the system we have is not socialist when you consider them "good" things. Or right and wrong.
Socialism is OK when it is our military.
Socialism is OK when it is for farmers.
Socialism is ok when it covers unions and the rights of workers.
Socialism is OK when power cooperatives use taxpayer money to build powerplants and then bill the people the actual going rate for electricity, then add the government loan payoff amount, per customer, so that not only did the tax payer pay in the money used for the loan, but the taxpayer is now directly paying the loan off, on top of their regular rate for electricity, so that the copperative has a consisten rate of profit. That's ok.

But it's not ok when it is health care. Because instead of a private company making a profit from your sickness or health, the government actually administers health care exactly the same to all of us, as they do to Medicare recipients. That's what Universal Healthcare in America would be. Medicare, for everyone, all the time.

Do you have any older family members who benefit from Medicare???
Are you that one guy in America whose entire extended family is so pro free trade that the entire family refuses government services so that you have the absolute right to piss and moan about the socialist liberals???

Noone in your family who has retired with Social Security, cause that's socialist!!! Can you tell your socialist family members to mail me back my money please. I'm sure they won't mind.
 

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But it's not ok when it is health care. Because instead of a private company making a profit from your sickness or health, the government actually administers health care exactly the same to all of us, as they do to Medicare recipients. That's what Universal Healthcare in America would be. Medicare, for everyone, all the time.
Seriously? thats your argument to convince me ObamaCare is a good thing? Medicare? They announced Medicare has an unfunded liability of almost 38 trillion ...thats trillion with a T..the amount of benefits promised but not covered by taxes over the next 75 years. Oh and about who decides your healthcare in a recent decision Medicare disallowed all recipients the ability to have a virtual colonoscopy. Why because if there is a high level of detection then patients would be referred to a traditional procedure. So even if you are a candidate for the less invasive and therefore less dangerous virtual one too bad. Thats just one example. I think Medicares hospital insurance trust fund is projected to be exhausted in 2019..then what? Oh yes I just can't wait to be signed up for Medicare for everyone all the time. ::) But hey fixing Medicares shortfall is easy it just requires a 122 percent payroll tax increase, ain't socialism grand?
 

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I've never ever tried to convince anyone to accept totalitarianism.

Nothing I have ever posted, suggests what you have in your post. And that's because you only have the one reaction to this kind of thing.
And it's that post you just posted. Over and over and over in these forums by a good number of fella's. Just the same line over and over.

And marxism! Good god man! It's not even the 80's anymore and that line was dated even then. It's dust right now.

Alot of people raised cane when FDR started it. So I assume you have never used a Highway? Or a national park? or a sanitation system, or water resevoir that was started from that socialism.

Of course you have. You just refuse to acknowledge that the system we have is not socialist when you consider them "good" things. Or right and wrong.
Socialism is OK when it is our military.
Socialism is OK when it is for farmers.
Socialism is ok when it covers unions and the rights of workers.
Socialism is OK when power cooperatives use taxpayer money to build powerplants and then bill the people the actual going rate for electricity, then add the government loan payoff amount, per customer, so that not only did the tax payer pay in the money used for the loan, but the taxpayer is now directly paying the loan off, on top of their regular rate for electricity, so that the copperative has a consisten rate of profit. That's ok.

But it's not ok when it is health care. Because instead of a private company making a profit from your sickness or health, the government actually administers health care exactly the same to all of us, as they do to Medicare recipients. That's what Universal Healthcare in America would be. Medicare, for everyone, all the time.

Do you have any older family members who benefit from Medicare???
Are you that one guy in America whose entire extended family is so pro free trade that the entire family refuses government services so that you have the absolute right to piss and moan about the socialist liberals???

Noone in your family who has retired with Social Security, cause that's socialist!!! Can you tell your socialist family members to mail me back my money please. I'm sure they won't mind.
Under FDR it was determined that the cost of pork was too low and if prices were higher then farmers would prosper. So in the middle of the great depression with people starving they (FDR's administration) slaughter piglets by the tens of thousands destroying the meat. I am very sure those people starving saw how good the socialists were treating them. So now the pork prices are higher but people cannot afford the bacon. So yet another government program to feed those that starved due to the last government program. But now the demand is lower so other programs are created to "help" the farmer. If you can see the lunacy congratulations this is socialism in action. Oh how lucky we are to have them "help" us.

Socialism is not ok for any one. It solves NOTHING and only creates more socialism in attempt to repair the problems caused by it in the first place, a never ending cycle of foolishness.

Funny how socialists take credit for anything we accomplish as a people as if it proves anything. They must steal credit because they have none unless you give credit for misery. But stealing is easy for them isn't it, all it takes is some warped logic and lies to ease their conscience.

Medicare is forced on people, even if you have a great private plan at work guess what happens the moment you hit eligibility for Medicare? The government robs people all their life to support involuntary programs people would not want otherwise. Who would trade Blue Cross for Medicare? Oh and since we are on that subject a large portion of the cost of health care is due to Medicare refusing to pay for even the wholesale cost of the service forcing the rest of us to carry those costs. Even then the program is run so poorly it cannot operate efficiently.

Perhaps we should just refer to socialists by the names they deserve, thieves and liars.

Oh and by the way the military is not run as a socialist state it is militarism. It has no claim on the property of its members and is far a better system if also totally unsuitable for civilian society. Socialism inflicted on the military only as a result of it growing like cancer in our government.

Socialism robs the people of prosperity then points to the people that must use its services due to this inflicted poverty and pronounces it a great success. Idiots! No pardon me..Liars and Thieves!

Bah Im tired of this merry-go-round, socialist ideals have been proven to be at the core rotten time and time again. Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Maoism, bah same ugly hag no matter what dress you put on it.

And one last thing, no matter how much they rob us it will never be enough. They say "this far no further" and then proceed to push the line saying "this far no further". Only a fool would believe this now. Wake up people...
 
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