Some People

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by 97TJ, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. 97TJ

    97TJ Member

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    Last Thursday morning I appeared before my County gun board for my CPL approval. When I got to work one of my co-workers came into my office and said “so you’re gonna start packn’ are ya� “Yup†I said.

    Well, knowing I have a strong faith in God, she continued “Don’t you believe that when it’s your time to go it’s not your choice but Gods?â€. My response was “Well if someone was to attack me or some other innocent person, and all I had was a baseball bat for self defense, I would use it. I’m sure you would too. My faith doesn’t mean I can’t defend myself or someone else and whether I use a baseball bat or a pistol it’s just a different tool for the same jobâ€.

    Some people just don’t get it.
     
  2. First, welcome to the fold.

    Second...... good response. Another might have been: Do you lock your doors at night? Why? When God wants you to be robbed, he'll send someone, no need to lock them right? Do you wear a seat belt? Why? When God wants you through the windshield, he'll send you. If someone came into your home and started pounding on your kid, would you stop them? Why? Wasn't it God's choice?

    No, some people don't and never will get it.
     

  3. elguapo

    elguapo Guest

    Yeah, people just dont get it. WHY else would we do what Newskate said? Why wear condoms? WHy have fire extinguishers?

    My sister used to follow that vein, of if god says its your time, then its your time. I agree with that, BUT: If its my time, because I chose to sit back and take what ever affront, and just play a victom, sorry charlie, that aint happnin'.
    On the other hand, other people who know, or find out that I carry, recognize with me, and most often ask how one goes about getting a CCW permit.
     
  4. AnArmyofRon

    AnArmyofRon Guest

    The correct translation is "thall shall not murder". God gave us brains and free will for a reason. To really loosely paraphrase God said use of deadly force is authorized.
     
  5. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    I get the same reaction ALL the time when people who know me as a Buddhist also find out that I am a gun owner. They instantly assume that being Buddhist means that you renounce ALL things that poke, go bang, or go squish.

    But, I remind them that one of the precepts of the path to enlightenment (Introduced in the Eight Fold Path and expounded upon by the teachings of various monks), is that of Right Action. In detail, it states that if one has the means to protect and enrich the lives of everyone around them, they are obligated to do so out of a sense of natural balance and not out of a sense of glory or accliam. This means if you have the funds to help out one in need, then you should, but not at the harm to yourself for glory sake. The same is true for defence. There have been MANY great generals who were also devout Buddhist, citing that the precept of Right Action applied to their service. In their comission, they are to protect those who cannot protect themselves with applicable force, never more. This applies to EVERY man, woman and child. Not just a certain class of people dictated by the government. Be it helping out a fellow man in a car wreck or serving in the civil and armed forces. It is a belief of balance and sometimes action is required.

    The KEY is to never use more force than is required. That breeds imbalance and suffering. That's the part that many don't attach to gun ownership and it's responsibility. That it evident in the guy who carries Hydrashock rounds in every gun in his house and insists that you need a .50 cal or bigger to have "effective stopping power". This is also evident in the person who willingly becomes the victim in order to have themselves appear to be "the better man" for not resorting to violence. Those who allow themselves or others to come to harm in order to make themselves look "better" than someone else is no better than the criminal weilding the weapon when looking at it from the philisophical and spiritual sense.
     
  6. well said neo. as a christian I follow the precept of God helps those who help themselves. I dont find the idea of shooting and\or killing someone a bad thing. that is why it is the line of last resort. haveing said that I will not wait to see if the BG is going to run when he sees my gun as he breaks down my door.
     
  7. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    I see shooting and/or killing someone as a HORRIBLE thing that I hope I never have to do.

    Anybody who doesn't see it as being a bad thing needs to have their head examined.

    That said, I would not hesitate to do it, if it had to be done.
     
  8. I am glad to see that you DO get it. Welcome to the forum my friend, I think you'll be comfortable here amongst our friends.
     
  9. Neo, I really gotta confess, I thought the same thing about budhists, of course the only experience that I've had with Budhism is from the "Kung-Fu" movies and the one part in "anger management".
    as for my personal belief, I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus Christ. I also believe that one of the greatest gifts god ever gave us is teh inteligence to use tools.
    with that being said, I am of teh firm belief that God made man and Sam Colt made him equal.
    If a man goes to threaten my family, he'd better get very acquainted with whatever god he believes in BEFORE he steps across my threshold.
     
  10. SHOOTER Z

    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

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    Then said he unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Jesus via Luke 22:036

    I was taught thios many years ago and also an old minister told me that it wasn't thou shalt not kill it was Thou shll not MURDER
     
  11. Mike_AZ

    Mike_AZ U.S.S. Member

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    Seems to conflict with Luke 6:27-31

    "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you."

    Why would you need to buy a sword to protect you stuff if you're supposed to just hand it over to the BG without a fight?
     
  12. Argh lets not get into theology... Luke also has a passage about selling your cloak to buy a sword, but I don't have my bible handy unfortunately... anyway, welcome!
     
  13. jsumpter99

    jsumpter99 Guest

    The assumption that god will protect us is correct. Where I believe most people get confused on god's intentions is the fact that they have been taught to believe that intervention implies direct actions from god himself. Most people do not stop to consider that maybe, gods way of protecting us is by giving us the ability to develop the tools to protect ourselves and the wisdom to use them wisely.
     
  14. hero_saku39

    hero_saku39 Guest

    I am an atheist but this is pretty simple with or without God. If it is your "time to go" then it doesn't matter if you have the gun or not. It won't fire or you will miss or he will have a bigger gun.......
     
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  16. If this thread decends into a religious debate it will be locked and subsequently deleted.

    So, keep that in mind when you are typing your posts. Everything is fine now, as long as it stays this way.
     
  17. No religeous debate from me. (I am a Christian for the record, but that's not what's important in this thread.)

    You answer is a good one. Let me tell you how I have answered the exact same question from other people with a faith in God.

    "Of course it's God's choice not mine. I don't really think I could overcome the power and will of God with a gun. Do you?"

    "On the other hand, how do you know that it's NOT the choice of God for me to be in the right place at the right time with my gun to save someone's else's life?"

    "How do you know that it's NOT God's will that I save my own life with my gun so I do something good for Him later?"

    "See, a lot of people throw that language around, as if any of us are experts on what IS and IS NOT God's specific will. Too me, it is much more dangerous for the Christian to presume to know what IS or IS NOT God's choice, than to presume NOTHING and be prepared to do what is required at the moment."

    "Doing what is right at the right time for the Christian is how we fulfill God's will, not trying to correctly guess it in advance."

    Again, this is not debating any view, this is simply how I have responded to the same question in the past. I hope I have not overstepped any bounds, MODS, and if so, I apologize.
     
  18. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    And I'm saying, even if it was done out of necessity, it would be a horrible experience. I really think that something like that would be difficult to deal with after the fact.

    I know some cops who were absolutely justified in their shoots. They are some of the toughest guys you'll ever meet, but years later they still have trouble dealing with it. It's not something that you just get in the shower after, and forget.