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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
So as I was pulling down the ammo, I decided I would take the drop tube off and check just to make sure it was clean. You can see the cobwebs in it. That would certainly create uneven flow.

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Peace favor your sword (mobile)
 
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Well there's yer problem! And we also know that "itsy bitsy spider" actually went up the drop tube spout. To heck with the water!
 
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You’d think a piece of sticky tape or a little piece of Kirk, I mean cork would have prevented that.
 
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I too use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure and I learned early to drop 5 charges and weigh them before starting my loading session. If I get a charge in those 5 that is well off the mark I reset the measure and start again. That has only happened once and it was my fault, not that of the measure. Also, I don't have a garage so my reloading room is in the house.
 

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So as I was pulling down the ammo, I decided I would take the drop tube off and check just to make sure it was clean. You can see the cobwebs in it. That would certainly create uneven flow.

View attachment 58259

Peace favor your sword (mobile)
Good lighting is imperative. That you are sure, and I agree, that your powder flow was obstructed, it just makes me more confident that you did not detect a light powder charge. Your choice of powder I think is also somewhat hard to see because it sits deep in the case and the min to max spread is so small.

I use LED on all my benches, except my Lyman bench which uses a T5 fixture that used to reside on my saltwater reef tank. Even with that setup I still use a LED that I set the tray under for one last look before bullet seating. On my Lee bench, LCT press, I noticed a problem with a powder drop. I was using a clamp on LED. I stopped and pulled all the previous loads I had done As a precaution, about 10 loads. I decided a press light would be a good idea. I went with KMS Squared. Best $10 I ever spent. I have since added the universal kit to my RCBS JR and RS5 and my Pacific multi power. The Lyman Spartan will be getting one too. Only the Lyman Spar-T and the RCBS Summit will not get one because I don't know how I would mount the light to the press. Here is a link to the universal kit that will fit your press. I promise that it's worth the investment. And it's on sale for $7.99!

https://kmssquared.com/rl_uni.html.

upload_2019-10-9_2-47-40.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Good lighting is imperative. That you are sure, and I agree, that your powder flow was obstructed, it just makes me more confident that you did not detect a light powder charge. Your choice of powder I think is also somewhat hard to see because it sits deep in the case and the min to max spread is so small.
Yeah, I think so. I think one of the contributing factors was my (former) process for visually checking. I'd drop the charge, quickly look inside, then seat the bullet. With this powder (which I will not be buying again) the charge is just too small for me to really tell if it's under or over, especially when I don't have a line of them all sitting beside each other to compare against.

I'm definitely adjusting my process.

I use LED on all my benches, except my Lyman bench which uses a T5 fixture that used to reside on my saltwater reef tank. Even with that setup I still use a LED that I set the tray under for one last look before bullet seating. On my Lee bench, LCT press, I noticed a problem with a powder drop. I was using a clamp on LED. I stopped and pulled all the previous loads I had done As a precaution, about 10 loads. I decided a press light would be a good idea. I went with KMS Squared. Best $10 I ever spent. I have since added the universal kit to my RCBS JR and RS5 and my Pacific multi power. The Lyman Spartan will be getting one too. Only the Lyman Spar-T and the RCBS Summit will not get one because I don't know how I would mount the light to the press. Here is a link to the universal kit that will fit your press. I promise that it's worth the investment. And it's on sale for $7.99!

https://kmssquared.com/rl_uni.html.

View attachment 58323
My "bench" is an old, square, coffee table. It is small enough that I can move it to a corner for storage so when I use it, I put it directly under my florescent fixture in my garage. It's also comparatively low so when I sit at it in a folding chair, I nearly hover over top of the entire process. the lighting is pretty good but I'm giving serious consideration to some sort of bench light on an arm. Maybe a craft light. I've always got a couple of hand-held LED flashlights near by (one in, literally, every room of the house and usually a 'tactical' on my hip) but, honestly, those are less convenient then a bench mounted lamp.

To be honest, the more I think about this the more I'm "glass half full" / "silver lining" it. It's true, and scary, that things could have gone very very wrong. The round squibbed, and if another round loaded and fired... and it wasn't even my gun. But that didn't happen. The shooter was getting special instructional attention at the time and the squib was caught instantly. So no actual harm done. In fact, the owner kept the barrel with the squib in it as a teaching tool. And it exposed a weakness in my process which I can make better.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Spiders are mean.

Had a Toyota Celica. One morning going to work it died about 2 blocks from my house. I had to pour some gas in the tank the day before using a gas can I had in the garage.

Couldn't figure out the problem at first but traced it to the fuel filter. Found 2 spider bodies inside. Only thing I can think of they were in the gas can I used, must have crawled in at the spout.
 

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My bench has an old clock with a dual light fixture over it. Small halogen directional room lights from Ikea on the ceiling. Old pic, the powder and bulk bullets are no longer up there.
 

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Kirk, don’t you use a digital scale? Florescent lights can play havoc with digital. I use mechanical scales, and I just didn’t think about it until your last post. I need to check my Speer reloading book, but I am pretty sure there is a FAK there that says to keep fluorescent lights at least 3 feet away from digital scales. It’s worth a look-see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Kirk, don't you use a digital scale? Florescent lights can play havoc with digital. I use mechanical scales, and I just didn't think about it until your last post. I need to check my Speer reloading book, but I am pretty sure there is a FAK there that says to keep fluorescent lights at least 3 feet away from digital scales. It's worth a look-see.
I have both and I use them in conjunction with each other as a sanity check. If they both agree, then I have a high degree of confidence in the charge weight.

I've never heard of florescent lights causing problems for digital scales. That's very interesting. However, my florescent is mounted on the ceiling and is definitely more than 3 feet away. Thanks for the heads up. I find it very intriguing.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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A thought about scales. I have an electronic scale. Hornady GS-1500. It’s a pretty good scale. Not my favorite though. Personal bias. I prefer manual tools. Same reason that I will choose a hand saw over a skill saw 8 out of 10 times.

One of the first things I was taught by my mentor in my early reloading days was whenever I changed a component, be it primer, case, or bullet, always go back to the starting load and work back up. I still do that today. I do load plinking ammunition using mixed brass but the loads are anemic. My "premium" loads, for example my 44 magnum hunting loads are all the same. My 44 magnum hunting loads include Star line Brass, Speer 240 grain Sierra bullet, IMR 4227 powder, CCI primer. Nothing deviates. If I change a component I go back to square 1 and work up.

My mentor also taught me to only use 1 scale. If you change scales you go back to square 1 and work up again. I have multiple scales. Besides the before mentioned electronic scale, I have 2 Redding scales, a Hornady, Pacific, RCBS, O’Haus, and Lyman. Zero them all out and take a weighed charge and there could be a 0.2 variance between the scales. My 57 grain charge on scale #1 could be anywhere from 56.8 grains to 57.2 grains on scale #2 through #7. Although most might be the same and any variance is usually only 0.1 grain, I think it goes to show that my mentor was right.

what does this mean in the day of electronics? Don’t know that it means anything. Electronic scales were not a thing when I was learning, but I have to think it has some correlation.
 

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Electronic scales are like climate change scientists remote sensing tools. There is a conversion happening, where something takes a change...a VERY small change...in a color or in an electric or magnetic field, and then assigns a digital value to it, based on someone's table of values as stored in the chips.

The thing is, to accurately measure very small changes, the sensors are going to be expensive, or they aren't as good. The amount of allowable error at a given price point can be a thing. And you have to allow for time...they aren't sensing every millisecond. Also, temperature can affect the electrical system.

When I use my cheap battery powered scale, I reset the tare every 10-15 rounds, just to be safe. And I go slow, so the thing has time to register any changes.

On a manual scale, the allowable error is in how well you read the pointer and the spaces between the numbers on a beam or dial, and/or in the springs if you have any. Of course, you have to correctly zero the thing, and make sure the pivot point is straight and level.

So any error will mostly be on you, rather than on things under the cover of the case.
 

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Maybe, Al, but I do think it's mostly in the scales. I have 2 scales that can be called modern, Thr Lee and and one of the Redding's. Those two are the ones that are off. The Redding is the one that weighs 0.2 heavy from the base lline.its also the only one that has a sticker with calibration mark's on the beam. i do not think the sticker is properly placed.

the Lee is actually very accurate and the easiest to read. its problem is that the adjustment wheel will not stay in place. you have to keep zeroing it. so in reality i guess it is not that accurate. But properly leveled it always measures with the base line.

the O'Haus - Lyman is one i have trouble seeing i think. The beam is painted and it needs to be repainted, it is hard to see. So i give this one to my eyes.

All the rest are accurate to the baseline. pretty amazing when 2 of them are older than me!
 
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
A thought about scales. I have an electronic scale. Hornady GS-1500. It's a pretty good scale. Not my favorite though. Personal bias. I prefer manual tools. Same reason that I will choose a hand saw over a skill saw 8 out of 10 times.

One of the first things I was taught by my mentor in my early reloading days was whenever I changed a component, be it primer, case, or bullet, always go back to the starting load and work back up. I still do that today. I do load plinking ammunition using mixed brass but the loads are anemic. My "premium" loads, for example my 44 magnum hunting loads are all the same. My 44 magnum hunting loads include Star line Brass, Speer 240 grain Sierra bullet, IMR 4227 powder, CCI primer. Nothing deviates. If I change a component I go back to square 1 and work up.

My mentor also taught me to only use 1 scale. If you change scales you go back to square 1 and work up again. I have multiple scales. Besides the before mentioned electronic scale, I have 2 Redding scales, a Hornady, Pacific, RCBS, O'Haus, and Lyman. Zero them all out and take a weighed charge and there could be a 0.2 variance between the scales. My 57 grain charge on scale #1 could be anywhere from 56.8 grains to 57.2 grains on scale #2 through #7. Although most might be the same and any variance is usually only 0.1 grain, I think it goes to show that my mentor was right.

what does this mean in the day of electronics? Don't know that it means anything. Electronic scales were not a thing when I was learning, but I have to think it has some correlation.
I use the digital and the manual scales as checks against each other. If they don't agree on a charge weight, I re-zero both. From zero, they almost always agree. It usually turns out that it's my Lee manual scale which has left zero and that has only ever been after I handle it (move it, etc.).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Lawson I sent you a message
 
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Last night I rebuilt the 99 remaining which I had pulled down. I filled the cases in sets of 25 so that I could visually compare them against each and throw a test charge to weigh. The one case which looked like it might have been under-charged went on the scale but it was fine. I was planning on taking them out to the range this afternoon to verify performance but it looks like it's going to rain. :(

Instead, I'll probably reload some .308 that my boy shot up last Friday.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Kirk will be replacing his Lee beam scale in a few days.
 
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@lklawson
Did you ever tell him that with a HiPoint pistol you just shoot out the squib?
Show him the 995 barrel with the 12 bullets stuck?
:D
 
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