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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have you all seen this web site. The interesting thing about it is these are real statistics, Diameter and Penetration are the average from bullets recovered in actual shootings and all data taken from Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's book: Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition and used with permission from the author. Can't get much more real than this.

And it is fun to play with.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0&Weight=All

Anyone else have some cool links? :)
 

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Saw that and opposing views also.
It's one of those never ending questions like which lube, which pistol platform, etc.

I don't even worry what is said anymore but go by my own preferences, I'd rather have penetration than expansion in a bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I find it extremely interesting that the 9MM Winchester 115 Gr FMJ's are at the very bottom of the list for one shot stopping and are also the bullets least likely to fire correctly from your C9. Kinda makes you wonder.
 

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There are alot of articles out there disputing the "One Shot Stop" idea put forth by Marshall and Sanow. IMO there are several problems with the way they collected data. A 45 round to someone's chest that stopped them immediately counts the same as someone taking a .22 to the arm and looking over to see they are covered by a shotgun and stopping their advance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So, anyone have a better place to look?
 

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So, anyone have a better place to look?
Yes, two places actually:

At your own test results be it wet-pack, water jugs or gel

and most importantly

Within yourself. What have you learned from reading various sources, from your own testing and observation or experience?

Me personally, you can tell by my forum name how I feel about pistol calibers. I don't need to depend on expansion to make a bigger hole and I really do like the BB 230 gr fmjfn +p bullets I've been testing.
My thoughts are that I would prefer penetration from any angle over an iffy expansion that might include inadequate penetration. I'm also quite comfortable with the 1911 platform and it's what I shoot best.

That being said, I also have a .380 pistol (also loaded with Buffalo Bore hard cast fn +p bullets) and it is with me at all times and does not leave me feeling unprotected.
I would of course prefer to carry my 1911 everywhere but some situations do not lend themselves to carry of a full sized Govt. model 1911 but require a bit more discretion.

My wife has a small pocket pistol but for the most part still carries her P22 (loaded with Velocriters) untill she is a bit more accomplished with the new pistol. I have no fear of her carrying a .22 though I hope she will carry her new LCP as soon as she is comfortable and proficient with it.

I have a good friend who was shot with a .22 and he is a rather large and stocky guy. He said it hurt like hell, doubled him over and took the fight out of him.

If you really want to read something, read up on criminal mind set. They look for an easy target and any gun no matter the caliber will definitely make a target not so easy.

Now we live in a good area (we had one murder/suicide last year and that was a bad year) and my wife never goes into any bad areas and is seldom without me anyhow. She also knows where I stage my weapons and has shot them all just in case she is home alone in our quiet neighborhood and there were a problem.
I doubt very much that any of these shootings or very few were in an area like ours but rather in inner city neighborhoods. What I'm saying is to look at your needs specific to your uniqe situation.

Just some things to consider:
Are you in an area that is cooler and the bullet might need to get through several layers of clothing?
Do you have the potential of coming across large animals?
In your area do weapons need to be concealed totally?
What are your skill levels?
Can you handle a large bore?

There are many things to consider and only you can determine what is right for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This guy put a lot of work into this study. It shows your water jugs and going through clothing etc. But even though the other site is controversial, if all the tests were done the same way, then it has relevance.

http://stevespages.com/page8f.htm
 

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This guy put a lot of work into this study. It shows your water jugs and going through clothing etc. But even though the other site is controversial, if all the tests were done the same way, then it has relevance.

http://stevespages.com/page8f.htm
They are all good sources of info, Ive seen many pages on balistics.

Once again, correalate what you read from the many pages of info available to your own results to find what is best for you.
Your particular gun might have issues with one brand but shoot another brand well.

I might shoot the X3000 X-Ring super nuclear bullet with great results, you might find you don't like the recoil or that your gun won't feed it.
Use this info as a starting point to find what works for you personally.
 

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Don't forget to check theboxotruth.com Like 45acp said there are a variety of different sources and they all have their positives and negatives. Read as much as you can and incorporate your own findings. But always remember a pistol is just a means of fighting your way to your rifle ;D
 

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I tend to over-analyze, and this was no exception. I dug up as much as I could and read all sorts of data. In the end, I finally decided that more than caliber or bullet-type, shot placement was the single greatest determining factor in effectiveness. To that end, I stopped worrying about everything else and am focusing on working on my shooting skills.

That said, I do keep JHP rounds for SD (or Sost Point for my long guns). But I have no problem stocking up on Remmington JHP bulk boxes at Walmart and using those both for practice and SD. Checking out actual result (from the link above and elsewhere), these are both cheap and still very effective. Some popular SD variants from other companies do not perform as well.

I have found I personally shoot better with my .45 1911 than my S&W M&P 9c, so I will probably make that my CCW weapon when I go for my CCW later this year. If it had been the other way around, I'd have no qualms carrying a 9mm. Whatever I shoot best with with server me best...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Carbin8r, I agree. I started this to stimulate thinking. Any tests we run are only our best guess'. Handload at least tried to use real situations to generate their charts. Good, no good, the debate goes on. Doesn't matter.
I use all this "stuff" to try and pick the bullet that I think is the best so I feel safe. Notice the word "I".

Yea, a well placed .25 is much better than 10 rounds of .45 shot in the foot floor wall etc. no matter what all the statistics say. Might scare the BD to death though. LOL
 
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