[lklawson]

I'm thinking about doing an Appleseed. I could use one of my boltie 22s but a semi seems smarter. I won't have to dismount from my shoulder or lose sight picture for subsequent shots. I could use one of my tube or stock-tube semis but they're slow and clunky to reload for the timed shoots. So that means a mag fed semi. 10/22 or a .22LR AR make the most sense. Because I already have a couple of ARs I'm leaning towards that platform. With the cost of ammo, I'd really rather a .22LR than my .223 AR. But I don't have a .22 AR.

So, for my purposes, I think I'm down to 3 options.

• Buy a new Ruger 10/22 (~$425)
• Buy a new 22 AR (~$425 for the S&W)
• Buy a 22 conversion kit for my AR (~$170)

So, cost being a factor, tell me about the conversions. Is a .22LR in a .223 barrel with the conversion going to be accurate enough for Appleseed? Are they generally reliable enough? Or would I just be chasing my tail and I should just bite the bullet (so to speak) buy a new rifle?

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

[Visper]

CMMG kit is what I have, and it works just fine. Comes with 3 mags and BCG. Usually around $170 like you said.
I do have a AR-22 but I have been toying with getting this from BCA (Bear Creek Arsenal):

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/calibers/ar-22/ar-22-complete-uppers/22-long-16-parkerized-barrel-1-16-twist-15-mlok-scg2-nrail-branded.html

10% off your first order, free shipping and no tax.

so $269.00

Not so bad, just swap out uppers and you can have an optic zero'd on it for your 22.

The conversion kits are fine but the zero of course will be different because of the 22 vs 223 being shot through it.

 

[TNTRAILERTRASH]

IIRC mag changes is a part of the training. I need to do Appleseed too. You will need a good sling and have the scope sighted in before arriving.

 

[ajole]

Come on now….I despise Ruger prices, but they aren’t $400 for a basic carbine and some O.k glass.

From what I read, a tube mag gun isn’t a problem. They just have you load one extra round and then eject it as a pseudo mag swap at the correct spot in the order, like, load 11, shoot 2, eject one, shoot eight. You load the tube while the other guys load their mags. Using a speed loader is allowed, some people use a straw, or a broken golf club or fishing pole, some use actual speed loaders like you can find on Amazon.

Tube mag procedure for Appleseed

I've got two Appleseed events in my resume. Both times, the shoot boss asked if "anyone was using a magazine tube fed rifle" both times no. I just got a used Marlin mdl 60 back to good working order and was wondering how a tube magazine is treated differently during the Appleseed events. I...

www.rimfirecentral.com

I have two of the AR bolt conversion kits. One had mags that were just a hair off in how they engaged the mag catch, and was unreliable. I got a second one, it was great, measured things and modified the older mags, now it all works.

But they aren’t that accurate. Plinking is OK, but groups aren’t that good. Didn’t seem to matter what the barrel twist was, from 1:9 to 1:8 or 1:7.

If you simply MUST buy a mag fed semi auto for Appleseed, I’d suggest a Rossi RS22 or Mossberg 702 Plinkster (not the 715 AR looking one). At least in my AO, both are MUCH cheaper than an AR bolt system, even if you toss in 2 spare mags.

Winchester Wildcat is another option, for almost Ruger money, $240. Uses Ruger mags, IIRC.

Since the Remington 597 and Marlin 795 are problematic, other than those three and a Ruger or Smith at almost double the cost, choices are limited. That said, I’ve had a lot of good luck with cheap used guns over the years.

For a scope, a Simmons 22 Mag fixed 4x is about $50, a BSA 3-7 AO sweet 22 model with ranging turrets is $70. I’ve got both, they’re just fine, you don’t need a $500 scope to shoot 25 or 100 meters on a range.

And all THAT said….the S&W M&P-22 is a really good gun for the money, especially if you can find a sale and get it under $400. Could be tough shooting prone…..

 

[greg_r]

Don’t know much about the 22 Conversions. My reserve unit had an indoor range rated for 22 rimfire. We had 22 conversion kits for the M16A1 and the 1911. The rifle conversion was unreliable, the pistol only a little better. I was on the pistol team, we ended up with the S&W model 41. That was some 40 years ago, I am sure things have gotten better since then.

On a more recent note my brother Carrie’s a Kimber 1911. When he got his CCW he used the Kimber 22 conversion kit. I was not there but I understand he did well but his friend who used his pistol had a lot of stoppages. Guess the operator makes a difference. That was still many years ago.

Never been to an Appleseed shoot. My nephew does Appleseed and he uses a standard 10/22.

 

[RACHGIER]

Did the Appleseed people ever get over their hang up about the 15-22 being unsafe? It's been years, but on at least one of the many other 22 conversion kit conversations we've had around here somebody happened to run up on an article saying they weren't allowed them to be used over safety concerns...

Probably due to some Fudd that got spanked by one...

 

[TNTRAILERTRASH]

Did the Appleseed people ever get over their hang up about the 15-22 being unsafe? It's been years, but on at least one of the many other 22 conversion kit conversations we've had around here somebody happened to run up on an article saying they weren't allowed them to be used over safety concerns...

Probably due to some Fudd that got spanked by one...

It was the out of battery discharges. (more than one) Defects in the bolts was causing that. One of my friends on FB is a Appleseed instructor. S&W has a gauge they send out for free to check it.

 

[RACHGIER]

It was the out of battery discharges. (more than one) Defects in the bolts was causing that. One of my friends on FB is a Appleseed instructor. S&W has a gauge they send out for free to check it.

OOB's and several runaways. I'm the one who posted it. 😆
I can't believe it took almost 6 years to resolve that...

(Taken from Project Appleseed)
UPDATE:

In Project Appleseed, student safety is paramount. We recognize and appreciate the effort that Smith & Wesson has made with their M&P 15-22 safety alert. The M&P 15-22 rifles will again be allowed for use at Project Appleseed clinics, effective August 1st, 2021. We urge every 15-22 owner to read and comply with the instructions contained in the following links before attending a Project Appleseed rifle clinic:https://www.smith-wesson.com/sites/default/files/MP1522_Alert_030619.pdf

 

[lklawson]

A friend of mine just recommended the Winchester Wildcat 22 as an alternative to the Ruger 10/22.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[ajole]

A friend of mine just recommended the Winchester Wildcat 22 as an alternative to the Ruger 10/22.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

See post number 4…..
The Wildcat is a Turkish built Winchester branded gun. I’m not sure how good they are.

 

[undeRGRound]

Hey Klawson, of you get the M&P 15/22 check CDNN Sports, they sell a lot of them and sometimes for $350 which is what Swogga would pay 🧐

None in Stock right now, sadly...

 

[Rabidwookie]

I'm thinking about doing an Appleseed. I could use one of my boltie 22s but a semi seems smarter. I won't have to dismount from my shoulder or lose sight picture for subsequent shots. I could use one of my tube or stock-tube semis but they're slow and clunky to reload for the timed shoots. So that means a mag fed semi. 10/22 or a .22LR AR make the most sense. Because I already have a couple of ARs I'm leaning towards that platform. With the cost of ammo, I'd really rather a .22LR than my .223 AR. But I don't have a .22 AR.

So, for my purposes, I think I'm down to 3 options.

• Buy a new Ruger 10/22 (~$425)
• Buy a new 22 AR (~$425 for the S&W)
• Buy a 22 conversion kit for my AR (~$170)

So, cost being a factor, tell me about the conversions. Is a .22LR in a .223 barrel with the conversion going to be accurate enough for Appleseed? Are they generally reliable enough? Or would I just be chasing my tail and I should just bite the bullet (so to speak) buy a new rifle?

Peace favor

I'm thinking about doing an Appleseed. I could use one of my boltie 22s but a semi seems smarter. I won't have to dismount from my shoulder or lose sight picture for subsequent shots. I could use one of my tube or stock-tube semis but they're slow and clunky to reload for the timed shoots. So that means a mag fed semi. 10/22 or a .22LR AR make the most sense. Because I already have a couple of ARs I'm leaning towards that platform. With the cost of ammo, I'd really rather a .22LR than my .223 AR. But I don't have a .22 AR.

So, for my purposes, I think I'm down to 3 options.

• Buy a new Ruger 10/22 (~$425)
• Buy a new 22 AR (~$425 for the S&W)
• Buy a 22 conversion kit for my AR (~$170)

So, cost being a factor, tell me about the conversions. Is a .22LR in a .223 barrel with the conversion going to be accurate enough for Appleseed? Are they generally reliable enough? Or would I just be chasing my tail and I should just bite the bullet (so to speak) buy a new rifle?

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

CMMG supposedly makes a good conversion kit. I’ve never used one, but I know a couple people who have, and they really like it. The Winchester wildcat is supposed to be comparable to the 10/22, less expensive, and uses 10/22 magazines. So that might be another option.

 

[undeRGRound]

CMMG supposedly makes a good conversion kit. I’ve never used one, but I know a couple people who have, and they really like it. The Winchester wildcat is supposed to be comparable to the 10/22, less expensive, and uses 10/22 magazines. So that might be another option.

WWWB uses Ruger 10/22 MAGAZINES 👍👍👍
Those are like the Glock of 22 rifles! (imo)

 

[ajole]

WWWB uses Ruger 10/22 MAGAZINES 👍👍👍
Those are like the Glock of 22 rifles! (imo)

Sucky triggers and overpriced? Yeah, I can see that possibility.

 

[undeRGRound]

Sucky triggers and overpriced? Yeah, I can see that possibility.

I was thinking more like best in class magazines but that's even better 😹

 

[ajole]

I was thinking more like best in class magazines but that's even better 😹

I have two ten round Ruger mags that are broken, one broke before first use. I have about 65 other .22 guns, some with magazines that are over 60 years old…still work great.

Best in class mags? Meh. The BX mags are pretty nice, if you like banana mags. They’re definitely better than the CZ 25 round single stack.
Random internet grab to show those silly things.

 

[Tu_S]

Guess I'm kind of focusing on your mention of Appleseed, but have to admit that while I know about it, I really don't know the specifics on what the expectations are.

I have a a CMMG conversion, and it works for my needs, which is shooting to 100yds at most at steel and just having fun, where good enough is good enough. Now for getting to the same distances and focusing on group sizes and accuracy, a 10/22 or M&P 15-22 is better, and if you're really going in this direction you'll probably want to spend a little more to get some of the factory upgrades (or spend more after the fact.)

Personally, I would go with a 10/22. Pictured here on the right from the front, my 10/22 Takedown, Trek-22 conversion, and vintage 10/22 my Dad got for me in the 70's when I was 8 or 9 years old. Second from the left, the HTA 90/22, with the 995TS in it's HTA stock next to it. Really never intended on having a collection of 10/22's, it's something that just happened putting together some kind of unique/different examples for the collection

 

[lklawson]

Guess I'm kind of focusing on your mention of Appleseed, but have to admit that while I know about it, I really don't know the specifics on what the expectations are.

How to be a classic "Rifleman," basically. This includes lectures on American Riflery history starting from the Revolutionary War. Speed is important is some of the tests but accuracy is paramount. They teach the classic Military Loop Sling. "Minute of Man" accuracy isn't going to be enough to earn the badges.

So far, from what I'm hearing, it sure sounds like what I suspected: the 22LR conversion kits just aren't accurate enough. From what I read, it's mostly the twist rate in the barrel. I wonder if a heavy, sub-sonic, .22LR would perform better in a conversion? The Aguila SSS Sniper Subsonic is 60gr. so that should work, right?

Off site link to Project Appleseed for more information:

Project Appleseed | Project Appleseed

appleseedinfo.org

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[ajole]

The Aguila “should” work….but we all know about how some 22’s prefer X while others prefer Y, and then….does Aguila SSS run the action?

 

[undeRGRound]

The Aguila “should” work….but we all know about how some 22’s prefer X while others prefer Y, and then….does Aguila SSS run the action?

Unless I'm neglecting some other considerations, it will cycle the action...
850 & 950 fps, 60gr versus the common "standard velocity" 40gr at 1050fps.