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Guys,
Maybe I should't feel the way I do. About the so called ultimate ammo. Those of us that own guns for defence reasons.Own them to kill ,or incapacitate with. But where do your draw the line ,between self defence,over kill ,or murder I feel if I were to use ammo this destructive on another human,God just may make me pay.I'am affraid the law might look,in the same direction. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not bashing anybody ,that has it or wants it.

Lets face it guns are made to kill. On the other hand is that always needed or wanted. I know it's a sticky situation, If some crook ,that very well deseves it ,gets hit center of mass he's dead period. Yes I have shot and killed.War doesn't leave any choice.On the other hand,in my own home. I have had a gun do it's job ,and never pulled the trigger. I'am thinking the use of ammo like this. Would put us in jail,for defending ourselves. I might still be alive,but what kind of life. If thrown behind bars for the reast of it, for defending it. I can all but promiss,use of that ammo on someone in this state. Would land me in prision for a long time. When ammo of less destruction ,would have ended the threat. The laws have gotten so crazy any more. You stand almost as much of a chance ,in going to jail. As the bad guy,if he survived. I'll take my chances,when it comes to the lives of my loved ones ,and me. I Just try to reach a happy medium.

I watched a trial on cort TV not long a go. Don't remember the state. A man was on trial for murder.For being in fear of his life,being charged at,and threatend,by some guy twice his size .Yelling I'm gonna kill you. This man was a role model for sure,no record,not even a speeding ticket. He was carriying a 10mm Glock ,leagelly concealed. He yelled at the other guy to stop,he of course didn't. The Guy tripple tapped him,he's dead. The poor guy was convicted,of 2nd degree murder,and sentenced to 35yrs. What got him ,was the gun caliber,he was using JHP's, and he tapped him too many times.The fact he was carring a weapon,more powerfull than most .Police officers carry was a real big issue. Yea he saved life I quess. Don't think I would doubt a man yelling at me he is going to kill me. At the age he went in at ,unless justice is truly done. He probbaly won't get out alive. They also made a big deal ,out of the fact . He shot center of mass.I couldn't belive my eyes and ears.
 

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Guys,
Maybe I should't feel the way I do. About the so called ultimate ammo. Those of us that own guns for defence reasons.Own them to kill ,or incapacitate with. But where do your draw the line ,between self defence,over kill ,or murder I feel if I were to use ammo this destructive on another human,God just may make me pay.I'am affraid the law might look,in the same direction. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not bashing anybody ,that has it or wants it.

Lets face it guns are made to kill. On the other hand is that always needed or wanted. I know it's a sticky situation, If some crook ,that very well deseves it ,gets hit center of mass he's dead period. Yes I have shot and killed.War doesn't leave any choice.On the other hand,in my own home. I have had a gun do it's job ,and never pulled the trigger. I'am thinking the use of ammo like this. Would put us in jail,for defending ourselves. I might still be alive,but what kind of life. If thrown behind bars for the reast of it, for defending it. I can all but promiss,use of that ammo on someone in this state. Would land me in prision for a long time. When ammo of less destruction ,would have ended the threat. The laws have gotten so crazy any more. You stand almost as much of a chance ,in going to jail. As the bad guy,if he survived. I'll take my chances,when it comes to the lives of my loved ones ,and me. I Just try to reach a happy medium.

I watched a trial on cort TV not long a go. Don't remember the state. A man was on trial for murder.For being in fear of his life,being charged at,and threatend,by some guy twice his size .Yelling I'm gonna kill you. This man was a role model for sure,no record,not even a speeding ticket. He was carriying a 10mm Glock ,leagelly concealed. He yelled at the other guy to stop,he of course didn't. The Guy tripple tapped him,he's dead. The poor guy was convicted,of 2nd degree murder,and sentenced to 35yrs. What got him ,was the gun caliber,he was using JHP's, and he tapped him too many times.The fact he was carring a weapon,more powerfull than most .Police officers carry was a real big issue. Yea he saved life I quess. Don't think I would doubt a man yelling at me he is going to kill me. At the age he went in at ,unless justice is truly done. He probbaly won't get out alive. They also made a big deal ,out of the fact . He shot center of mass.I couldn't belive my eyes and ears.
please post links to the relevant case data. this smacks of BS to me. if a person was actually prosecuted for shooting someone center of mass in sedlf defense im sure there are a lot of people who want to know about it. Police officers carry a round that is the smae nominal caliber as the 10mm and teh FBI carried it as well so unles the guy was carrying some custom hot rod ammo i cnat see how you could be prosecuted for it just because its JHP ammo. and FWIW three rounds to stop a target in a defensive shooting is not out of line. its what it took to stops the threat. So i reiterate my BS claim.

SW
 

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This topic makes me so utterly angry that I rarely even want to talk about it.

It BOGGLES my mind that if an intruder ever breaks into our home with the intent to injure, we have to second guess ourselves a million times before we pull the trigger. I understand that we should give that intruder the option to leave, inform him we'll shoot/are armed and that we shouldn't follow him IF he leaves. But the fact that we have to worry about our freedom for protecting ourselves and loved ones? It definitely ticks me off to no extent
 

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I love the great state of Tennessee!
Here, we have the Castle Doctrine, actually just a similar but better law, for home defense. Basically it says that if we are threatened within our home/dwelling we do not have to retreat. If a person is in our house, without being invited there by the authority/owner of the house, then they are considered a threat. Also, in a self defense situation in public, we have the right to stand our ground and not retreat. If we have to use our legally obtained and/or concealed firearm, and the police ruled the use as self defense, then we cannot be brought up on civil or criminal charges. The only exception would be if an innocent bystander were hurt or killed. Also, if the attacker was under the age of 18, and was welding a gun, then the defender can sue the family of the attacker for allowing him/her to have access to a gun, if they so chose to. If we were to inadvertently carry a gun into a place where guns are not allowed, and had to use it in our defense, or that of another, we cannot be held criminally for the illegal carriage of the gun.
The above simply means that if I had to defend myself with deadly force, and it was ruled as self defense by the police, then both what I shot the attacker with, and how I shot the attacker, cannot be questioned. The only thing that can be questioned is why I shot him/her. In that instance, "I was in fear for my life and/or that of my family. I shot him to stop the threat and incapacitate him."
 

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Last year, We in Missouri also recieved the castle doctrine. It has already been tested here in missouri, when a carjacker, who got shot and wounded, tried to sue. the suit was thrown out thanks to the castle doctrine. the court said the assailant shouldn't have been carjacking someone.
 

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New Mexico doesn't have the Castle Doctrine, but if someone gets shot in self defense, the DA and Cops wouldn't be trying to bust anyone.... That's just how it is around here.


I'd also be interested in seeing specific case data regarding the guy with the 10mm. From what a local Sheriff's Deputy told me, the bigger caliber the better when shooting in SD/HD. That just means the BG will die and there's less cost to the county to fix him up, put him on trial and throw his sorry ass in jail.
 

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Guys,
Maybe I should't feel the way I do. About the so called ultimate ammo. Those of us that own guns for defence reasons.Own them to kill ,or incapacitate with. But where do your draw the line ,between self defence,over kill ,or murder I feel if I were to use ammo this destructive on another human,God just may make me pay.I'am affraid the law might look,in the same direction. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not bashing anybody ,that has it or wants it.

Lets face it guns are made to kill. On the other hand is that always needed or wanted. I know it's a sticky situation, If some crook ,that very well deseves it ,gets hit center of mass he's dead period. Yes I have shot and killed.War doesn't leave any choice.On the other hand,in my own home. I have had a gun do it's job ,and never pulled the trigger. I'am thinking the use of ammo like this. Would put us in jail,for defending ourselves. I might still be alive,but what kind of life. If thrown behind bars for the reast of it, for defending it. I can all but promiss,use of that ammo on someone in this state. Would land me in prision for a long time. When ammo of less destruction ,would have ended the threat. The laws have gotten so crazy any more. You stand almost as much of a chance ,in going to jail. As the bad guy,if he survived. I'll take my chances,when it comes to the lives of my loved ones ,and me. I Just try to reach a happy medium.

I watched a trial on cort TV not long a go. Don't remember the state. A man was on trial for murder.For being in fear of his life,being charged at,and threatend,by some guy twice his size .Yelling I'm gonna kill you. This man was a role model for sure,no record,not even a speeding ticket. He was carriying a 10mm Glock ,leagelly concealed. He yelled at the other guy to stop,he of course didn't. The Guy tripple tapped him,he's dead. The poor guy was convicted,of 2nd degree murder,and sentenced to 35yrs. What got him ,was the gun caliber,he was using JHP's, and he tapped him too many times.The fact he was carring a weapon,more powerfull than most .Police officers carry was a real big issue. Yea he saved life I quess. Don't think I would doubt a man yelling at me he is going to kill me. At the age he went in at ,unless justice is truly done. He probbaly won't get out alive. They also made a big deal ,out of the fact . He shot center of mass.I couldn't belive my eyes and ears.
please post links to the relevant case data. this smacks of BS to me. if a person was actually prosecuted for shooting someone center of mass in sedlf defense im sure there are a lot of people who want to know about it. Police officers carry a round that is the smae nominal caliber as the 10mm and teh FBI carried it as well so unles the guy was carrying some custom hot rod ammo i cnat see how you could be prosecuted for it just because its JHP ammo. and FWIW three rounds to stop a target in a defensive shooting is not out of line. its what it took to stops the threat. So i reiterate my BS claim.

SW
The closest I could find was googling Harold Fish.
 

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there was a heck of alot more factors at play in the Fish trial than just caliber and bullet type. You may want to read up on them before using it to substanitate an arguement.

SW
 

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there was a heck of alot more factors at play in the Fish trial than just caliber and bullet type. You may want to read up on them before using it to substanitate an arguement.

SW
What types of factors are we talking about?
 

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the biggest factor was the law regarding self defense was changed from guilty until proven innocnet to innocent until proven guilty just as the trial started and the judge refused to allow the law to be used as written, he forced the jury to use the old law. also he blocked the defense from using any information regarding the attackers history of violent behavior, and threats he made agaisnt other persons. the judge also completelty banished any mention of jury nullification from the trial and prevented the jury from returning any verdit other than mansulater or murder. they were prevented from returning a inncoent verdict by the jury instructions. there is already a motion in place for a retrial due to the fact that the judge was removed from the bench shortly after the trial. it was basically a railroad job by a liberal judge who wanted the trial to go a certain way and made it so that it did.

SW
 

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That trial was rigged, no doubt about it. Once Mr. Fish is released from prison he'll have a really good grounds for a lawsuit and become a millionaire. Good for him.
 

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the biggest factor was the law regarding self defense was changed from guilty until proven innocnet to innocent until proven guilty just as the trial started and the judge refused to allow the law to be used as written, he forced the jury to use the old law. also he blocked the defense from using any information regarding the attackers history of violent behavior, and threats he made agaisnt other persons. the judge also completelty banished any mention of jury nullification from the trial and prevented the jury from returning any verdit other than mansulater or murder. they were prevented from returning a inncoent verdict by the jury instructions. there is already a motion in place for a retrial due to the fact that the judge was removed from the bench shortly after the trial. it was basically a railroad job by a liberal judge who wanted the trial to go a certain way and made it so that it did.

SW
I actually ended up reading about those factors via a google search. I thought what you were trying to say was that he did something sketchy himself... I'm shocked at the direction that trial took. Seems like complete and utter B.S. to me and I'm sure PrimalSeal is right in his last post. Too bad he can't file those claims sooner rather than later, though...
 
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Live here a spell, and you will wonder why I always think that the prison I drive by towards work: I would end up there due to a "name wanting " AG when I have to defend myself.
 
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