[ajole]

Sure there is: pressure. Rimfire has always been known for blowouts and the fragility of the case at the rim. The highest pressure I could find on any even modern rimfire round was a tad over 26k…

Yes. And that’s FAR MORE PRESSURE than the old BP stuff. My point.

I also foresee reliability issues. It's already hard enough to make sure the primer compound gets all around the 22 rim. Expand the circumference 3 times or more...

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Come on….as long as we’re being silly, let’s ignore those kinds of issues. It’s going to made by commercial makers, obviously they will fix the reliability issue. Probably use a two part case to handle all that pressure as well.

Besides, if they ARE reliable, any government that outlawed centerfire will outlaw rimfire too.🤣

If we get THIS far behind, the constitution is crap anyway…none of this makes one lick of logical sense.

If we let them do it…we’ve already lost our freedom, and our country.

 

[undeRGRound]

I like the thought exercises, but don't have a whole lot to add here except that my VR60 is a semi-auto high caliber rimmed cartridge, albeit centerfire. So bigger calibers with rims can be made to work...

 

[ajole]

I like the thought exercises, but don't have a whole lot to add here except that my VR60 is a semi-auto high caliber rimmed cartridge, albeit centerfire. So bigger calibers with rims can be made to work...

Yeah….that’s not the issue. All of the first automatic weapons all fired rimmed ammo, and did it well.

 

[undeRGRound]

Yeah….that’s not the issue. All of the first automatic weapons all fired rimmed ammo, and did it well.

Moar datapoints, thanx Holey

 

[ajole]

Lewis gun, Maxim gun, Vickers, Dyegtyaryov, and others. Basically everyone but US guns (although we used a few too.) pre WW1 through the beginning of NATO, and even longer in Warsaw Pact areas.

 

[greg_r]

Lewis gun, Maxim gun, Vickers, Dyegtyaryov, and others. Basically everyone but US guns (although we used a few too.) pre WW1 through the beginning of NATO, and even longer in Warsaw Pact areas.

The Colt 1895 "Potato Digger" was chambered for the 30-40 Army, 303 British, and the 7.62x54 Russian. Teddy Roosevelt’s Rough Riders had 2 of them (bought by civilians and gifted to the Rough Riders) in 7x57 Spanish, and the US Navy adopted it in the 6mm Navy cartridge, a semi-rimmed round. The US Army never officially adopted it, but did buy some 150 of them, I presume in 30-40, but don’t know for sure.

Designed by J. M. Browning. There’s your American machine gun capable of firing rimmed cartridges.

 

[bumthum]

Well, I would think the Ruger Deerfield would also make an excellent candidate for rimfire conversion. The rotary mag and being set of for .44 Mag basically should mean altering the gas system and moving the location of the firing pin.

 

[greg_r]

Well, I would think the Ruger Deerfield would also make an excellent candidate for rimfire conversion. The rotary mag and being set of for .44 Mag basically should mean altering the gas system and moving the location of the firing pin.

I wonder if they even have the tooling to make the Deerfield any more. I would like to see it come back in 44 mag and 357 mag. I bet it would sell.

Speaking of…since they own Marlin, how about bringing back the Camp Carbine? I know, competion for the Ruger PC Carbine, but hey! The more the merrier!

Hmmmm…wonder if they could make a Camp Carbine in 30SC ?

 

[undeRGRound]

Lewis gun, Maxim gun, Vickers, Dyegtyaryov, and others. Basically everyone but US guns (although we used a few too.) pre WW1 through the beginning of NATO, and even longer in Warsaw Pact areas.

I'm thinking there was a 762x54R full auto too. Knowing how ammo-modular the Russians tried to be.

 

[greg_r]

I'm thinking there was a 762x54R full auto too. Knowing how ammo-modular the Russians tried to be.

I alluded to the Colt Potato Digger earlier. The Soviets also fielded the PK starting in the late 1950’s early 1960’s that is still in service today.

 

[bumthum]

I alluded to the Colt Potato Digger earlier. The Soviets also fielded the PK starting in the late 1950’s early 1960’s that is still in service today.

Yeah, there are plenty of rimmed auto-loaders, the issue remains the pressure that rimfire cartridges are able to contain with their thin bases. 5mm Remington seems to be the champ for pressure @ 33,000 psi. That's usable, but not quite high enough to replace centerfire self-defense rifle calibers.

 

[Bull]

Lewis gun, Maxim gun, Vickers, Dyegtyaryov, and others. Basically everyone but US guns (although we used a few too.) pre WW1 through the beginning of NATO, and even longer in Warsaw Pact areas.

I've always thought the Lewis guns were pretty cool...

 

[ajole]

I'm thinking there was a 762x54R full auto too. Knowing how ammo-modular the Russians tried to be.

Degtyaryov……not really a French name, right?

I found about three ways to spell it….but yeah. You’re right. And there were at least two others before WW2.

 

[ajole]

Yeah, there are plenty of rimmed auto-loaders, the issue remains the pressure that rimfire cartridges are able to contain with their thin bases. 5mm Remington seems to be the champ for pressure @ 33,000 psi. That's usable, but not quite high enough to replace centerfire self-defense rifle calibers.

Ummm….that will kill you plenty dead at “self defense” ranges. .45 ACP is 21,000 psi max.

 

[bumthum]

Ummm….that will kill you plenty dead at “self defense” ranges. .45 ACP is 21,000 psi max.

Yeah, it's plenty for a handgun or PCC, but I was thinking as a rifle cartridge. I know I'm breaking with my "large caliber" criteria, but I'm still stuck on what to do about 5.56, etc. I don't see any significant difficulty in developing 9mm or .45 ACP equivalents in rimfire, it would just take the market forces to drive the ammo manufacturers there, if there were to be a restriction on centerfire. Come to think of it, I would be curious to see some of the early rimfires be chronographed just to see what their performance really is. According to wikipedia (I know ) the .44 Henry fired a 200 grain bullet at 1,125 fps and 568ft-lbs... that was on black powder and performance was better than a lot of .45 ACP loads. But its a lot more case capacity so I wonder how a modern smokeless version could be made to perform.

 

[ajole]

What to do about 5.56? Do not comply. It’s our right. They can’t take that away, unless we let them.

 

[AmericanDefender]

Being that I shoot 38rf, its not hard to convert centerfire cases too rimfire using blanks for a 22. So the only change to the ammo would need to be the location of the primer pocket. That's how I make 38 rimfire out of 38 special.

 

[TNTRAILERTRASH]

I'm thinking there was a 762x54R full auto too. Knowing how ammo-modular the Russians tried to be.

Open bolt gun too IIRC. Belt fed.

 

[mouser868]

I'm thinking there was a 762x54R full auto too. Knowing how ammo-modular the Russians tried to be.

They did in this variant of the Maxim

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PM_M1910