To shoot or not to shoot ?

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by fattie, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. fattie

    fattie Guest

    what would constitute a justified shooting ? during my course the instructor never mention any of this. would the attacker have to have a weapon , etc..... ? i think this will be info for everyone
  2. Oneofsix

    Oneofsix Member

    it very much depends on the state laws where one resides.

  3. Ridge

    Ridge Member

    I think if there is an immediate threat to you or the others around you...say, a person who is running around with a knife or a gun and attacking someone...that is a justified shooting...rarely is someone prosecuted for attacking a domesticated animal that is charging another person, as well...
  4. MinnesotaBoy

    MinnesotaBoy Guest

    When I was living in Minneapolis I was told by many people that if an intruder was to come into my place of residents with a gun you could not lawfully shoot them unless you were in the furthest most point from any exit in the house before you could shoot them. What a bunch of legal B.S. that is! Especially in Minneapolis! Like I am gonna let some gangbanger come through my door and chase me into my basement and into the far corner before I put a bullet in his skull! YEA RIGHT! If I feel that my life or my family is in danger of our lives I WILL shoot! APPARENTLY a justified shooting depends on location! Boy am I glad I moved out of that dump of a city!

    Sorry to rant on about that but the moral of my story is shoot first and answer questions later!
  5. Very true, you should research your state laws. Several of them have "must retreat" laws even if you are in your own bedroom. That's why I'm paying close attention to the "Castle Doctrine" and the states that are adopting it into law. That is where I'll eventually relocate to.
  6. I hear you! I live just out side of mpls. But it's pretty much that for the whole state. You have to retreat if possible unless say someone else is in immenent danger of "substantial bodily harm" and then ONLY in you house proper. Garage, porch, yard occupied car etc. it's a no-no.

    THey just shot down (no pun intended) a bill to remove the retreat requirement as long as it is in your porch, garage or occupied car and to change it from "substantial bodily harm" to "Great Bodily harm"

    The best part is they defined "Great Bodily harm" as me punching you in the face hard enough to knock out teeth. Silly me I would think getting your teeth beat out would be substantial, but hey I'm not a legislator.
    I have a real job and in 29 day I'll also have my CCW permit
  7. MinnesotaBoy

    MinnesotaBoy Guest

    Carpe_Jugulum: if you don't mind me asking, what suburb do you reside in? I lived in Brooklyn Park for 23 years and Northeast Minneapolis for 4 1/2 years and I am now in St. cloud for about 7-8 months!
  8. when i was in texas the law gave the gunowner plenty of in mississippi? i am not so sure. some of these clowns are the bleeding heart type.
  9. IMHO....... we need to be careful here. Laws and circumstances are different everywhere. The question itself is a bit unfair and any answer is basically opinion based on what someone knows or believes to be true.

    Not trying to be a kill-joy here. BUT - what we do, buying a gun, training, being in a position to protect ourselves and our families is maybe the most serious decision we'll make. Out actions can result in the ultimate penalty. We cannot possibly answer the question as it is posed.

    Again, my opinion - when you put yourself in a position as many of us have, you are obligated to spend as much time understanding the laws and decisions you might make, as you are practicing. You need to be an expert in both.

    Soap box back under the bed now...........
  10. I'm in Crystal/robbinsdale. So you know about a stones throw for the rather bad parts of MPLS.

    Here is a link to the bill that was proposed:

    Would have been so nice
    and this a sample of the press response
  11. MinnesotaBoy

    MinnesotaBoy Guest

    Thanks for those links carpe. Interesting read! Just don't cross state lines with a duck on top of your head or you'll get arrested! LOL
  12. elguapo

    elguapo Guest

    Fattie:you went through a concealed carry course, and your instructor never touched on that subject with you? If that is the case, then my man, you got hosed.

    If you went through a "pistol" class, to buy a firearm, then yeah, I would expect your kind questions.

    Good point about the local and state laws you live in, for thier "Definate" interpretations on thier local/state laws.
  13. fattie

    fattie Guest

    i went threw the class that was required. it was the nra basic pistol, i would of thought since its the course you need to take to get your permit , i would of at least learned some of that stuff.
  14. jsumpter99

    jsumpter99 Guest

    I would consider a few things when deciding to shoot or not. Number one, I believe when you shoot, you shoot to put someone down. Any time you shoot someone death is a very real possiblity and therefore one must understand that if you shoot someone you must also realize they may be killed.

    Now, that being stated I dont believe that someone should rely on the laws when it comes to shooting someone. To me shooting, or not shooting is a question of morailty rather than legality. I dont want to kill anyone, ever if possible. I believe that any shooting incident should be avoided if at all possible until one reaches the point where they are honestly in fear for thier lives. However, if you are honestly in fear of your life, and honestly believe that it is you or them, then I wouldnt let legal reprocussions stop me either. I would rather go through the legal system than get put in a casket.

    I was in a situation that almost got really ugly a while back. Two young adults were racing down the road in seperate vehicles, swerving in and out. One of these guys evidently gets mad becuase he cant race his friend through town because I am only going 10 mph over the speed limit and oddly enough insist on driving on pavement. It began by flippping me off, and when that was ignored the guy starts trying to run me off of the road. Then his buddy gets in on it, so I have one car blocking me from the rear, and one in front swerving from lane to lane so that I cant pass. This was all going on at about 65 mph, so things werent fun to say the least. They were basically trying to get me to pull of the road, so all of them could "kick the s#&t out of me" or so they were screaming. Eventually the one in front loses control of his vehicle, and comes across my front fender knocking me off the road and him just over the yellow line on the edge. We were both stopped at that point, and his buddy was getting out of the car behind me. Now, I am a small guy, and would not have faired well at all in a fight with these guys. I had two options, hit the gas or grab the pistol. As the guy who hit me starts to get out as well, I hit the gas and go. Thankfully just over the next hill there was a police officer waiting who, while he was a complete idiot, did cause the two guys trying all this stuff to break and run.

    I think that honeslty in that incident I would have been perfectly right to stand my ground, as I consider trying to run someone of the road every bit as much attempted homicide as someone trying to shoot you. I thank goodness now that I made the decision I did, because if I had gotten out of the car none of our lives would have likely ever been the same.
  15. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    Varies by state, but IMHO, state laws notwithstanding -- A reasonable articulable belief that you or another is in danger of death or sever bodily harm, justifies lethal force.

    I had a VERY similar experience to Jsumpter's a couple of years back.

    A couple cars full of illegals wanted to race, and didn't like the fact that I had to audacity to be on the road while they wanted to race. The car that was "stuck behind me" (an early 90's Mitsubishi Eclipse with the classic primer-gray body kit) came flying up around me, the driver and passengers all yelling in Spanish. There were about 4-5 angry (and apparently drunk) Mexicans, who apparently wanted me to pull over and fight them. Now I may have looked like a total bad-ass on a sport bike, in full leather riding gear, but there was no way in hell I was going to be able to take them on--I'm 135 soaking wet. 1 at a time, I might liked my chances against drunk idiots, but not 4 on 1... I'll leave those to Jet Li, et al.

    Anyway, after their drunken yelling didn't convince me to pull over, they decided to try running me off the road, and ended up losing control of their vehicle and spinning out. I figured this would be enough to get them to lose interest, but as I made the turn around the block to pull into my driveway, I see them coming up VERY fast on my tail.

    I didn't want them to know where I lived, so I took off down a 2 block stretch of road before a stop-sign. I hit about 85 before I had to go full-on brakes. When I did brakes and wait for a break in cross-traffic, to turn (it was late at night, so I only had to wait for a car or two), they tried to hit me while I was stopped. I ripped the throttle open and took off down the road. I hit about 115 down a city road. If you've never done it, that's FAAAAST--doesn't seem that fast on the freeway, but in town, it's downright terrifying. Especially when you've got some other fairly stressful
    things going on in the background.

    Like a scene straight out of a movie--including the slow-motion effects, I came up on a light that there was just no way I could stop in time before it changed. It went yellow, and I shat myself squeezing the brakes (about half a block back). I'd slowed to about 45 when it turned red (about 20' from the intersection) and was doing a good solid 30 mph when a minivan entered the intersection directly in front of me. To this day, I don't know how I kept it sticky side down, but somehow I managed to slide through the intersection damn-near sideways (behind the van) and straighten back out (with my assailants hot on my tail).

    At this point I decided that top speed wasn't going to be my best friend, in town, and decided to take advantage of my bad-ass acceleration, and just started taking random turns. Left, left, right, left, right, right, right, left... Anyway, eventually I lost them, and went home.

    That's probably the ONLY time I've ever been able to ride my bike without seeing or being hastled by a single cop... The one time they could have done some good. :roll:

    Those guys were trying to kill me with their car. Had I had a gun with me, I can't say what I would have done differently in that particular situation, but if the situation had allowed it, I would have pulled the trigger in a heartbeat. Those F**kers wanted blood.

    I've told a few fibs in my day, but I swear to you, that story's 100% true.