Hi-Point Firearms Forums banner

1 - 20 of 119 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From what I read the United States Army will be putting over $1,000,000,000 in upcoming years into switching out 5.56 x 45 firearms for a new 6.8 millimeter General Purpose Cartridge.

After months of rumors, the U.S. Army confirmed its Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW) will adopt the 6.8 millimeter. The caliber switch from the current 5.56mm applies to the upcoming M4 carbine and M249 Squad Automatic Weapon replacements.

Details on the 6.8 millimeter Switch

In a Prototype Opportunity Notice posted on Fed Biz Opps, U.S. Army Contracting Command calls for "two weapon variants and a common cartridge for both weapons, utilizing Government provided 6.8 millimeter projectiles."

Again, those two variants apply to both replacements in the ongoing NGSW program. The first replacement is the NGSW-Rifle (NGSW-R), which will succeed the current M4/M4A1 Carbine.

The second variant refers to the NGSW-Automatic Rifle (NGSAR), a replacement for the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) in the Automatic Rifleman Role in Brigade Combat Teams (BCT).

This is a change from the initial plan, which, according to the Army Times, "was to first develop the NGSAR and then allow its advancements to inform the development of the M4 replacement, the NGSW-R."

Posted on Oct. 4, the PON notes a 27-month development period, suggesting a winner could be selected at some point in 2021.

Why 6.8 millimeter?

Various reports state the U.S. Army had been looking for an "intermediate caliber" in between the 5.56mm and 7.62mm. Ultimately, the decision comes down to effectiveness in the field.

"We're looking to reach out around 600 meters and have lethal effects even if the target is protected by body armor," Colonel Geoffrey A. Norman, force development division chief at Army Headquarters, told Task & Purpose in May 2017. "We need to have lethal effects against protected targets and we need to have requirements for long-range lethality in places like Afghanistan, where you're fighting from mountaintop to mountaintop over extended ranges."

NGSAR Candidates Confirmed


The U.S. Army confirmed in July that five companies have already been selected to produce six prototypes for the NGSAR program.The companies include SIG Sauer, FN America, Textron Systems, General Dynamics and PCP Tactical. FN is submitting two variants.

So, is the 6.8 Special Purpose Cartridge - or any other current 6.8 millimeter round - going to "replace" the current 5.56x45mm (.223) or 7.62x51mm (.308) round in the Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW)? No. In fact, any current ammunition is unlikely to; that's why it's the next generation.

Read more at: https://www.tactical-life.com/news/us-army-6-8mm-weapon-systems/
and
https://www.tactical-life.com/lifestyle/military-and-police/next-gen-us-army-6-8mm-round/
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
In my research I have discovered the details of the new rifle cartridge are not clear presently on what the new 6.8 millimeter General Purpose Cartridge actually is. The military is keeping information on the round in these circumstances to prevent enemies from knowing what the exact ballistics are for now.

I am curious if an AR-15 or M-4 receivers can be modified to accept new magazines that feed the 6.8 General Purpose Cartridge. Here is a video on the new cartridge:

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,814 Posts
From my research on this, yes, the AR15 lower is good as is. But, the 6.8 upper will have to have a different bolt. Bolt carrier also perhaps. Also, you will need new 6.8 magazines. However, some say the 5.56 mags just need a new 6.8 follower installed in them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
I think they are going for a telescoped polymer cased 6.8 cartridge as opposed to the caseless telescoped cartidge design that they were wanting... and instead of going with a 6.8SPC or similar metallic cartridges
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
28,406 Posts
I think they are going for a telescoped polymer cased 6.8 cartridge as opposed to the caseless telescoped cartidge design that they were wanting... and instead of going with a 6.8SPC or similar metallic cartridges
This. The telescoping cartridge is way different.

I wonder what it's going to be like for reloaders/reloading? Similar to shotgun shells maybe?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You will not be able to reload the polymer rifle casings for the 6.8 General Purpose Cartridge in my opinion. When this round starts being mass produced in the next several years civilian ammunition manufacturers will make full brass casings for the public.

I'm glad the Army has decided on a more powerful intermediate cartridge for their rifles and machine guns.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
Who wants to wager that it's going to get very expensive, very fast, and Congress will cut budgets and cancel/reduce this program just like they did with the "Advanced Gun System", Future Bomber (changed to the B-21 program?), F-35, and other vehicle programs?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,106 Posts
6.8prc in a poly case? It fits their requirements easily...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,243 Posts
In what little I have been able to find on this cartridge and rifle combo. It appears that it is going to be polymer cased ammunition that is fired out of a rifle that is midway in size between the AR10 and M16. The receivers on the rifle , both lower and upper are larger in size than the M16. IIRC it was fed from a 24 or 26 round magazine??? I saw a picture of the rifle with a current rifle, it was definately a larger pkatforn.

Will be interesting to see what they do actually end up with.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
In what little I have been able to find on this cartridge and rifle combo. It appears that it is going to be polymer cased ammunition that is fired out of a rifle that is midway in size between the AR10 and M16. The receivers on the rifle , both lower and upper are larger in size than the M16. IIRC it was fed from a 24 or 26 round magazine??? I saw a picture of the rifle with a current rifle, it was definately a larger pkatforn.

Will be interesting to see what they do actually end up with.
Are they still trying for a telescoped cartridge?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,679 Posts
Will someone please explain the concept of a telescoped cartridge? Non-AR - type person here
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
Will someone please explain the concept of a telescoped cartridge? Non-AR - type person here
Cased-Telescoped cartridge is an idea in which the bullet or round is buried within the case, with propellant and such being around it. The idea is to reduce the size and bulk of a round, but still having as much power, or more power than a cartridge of similar length. Picture is for a 40mm cannon cartridge, but basic idea is there
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,243 Posts
Are they still trying for a telescoped cartridge?
I dont even know how close what I saw was. It was a print article that a Ft Bragg showed me
It looked like a slightly larger version of the M4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Cased-Telescoped cartridge is an idea in which the bullet or round is buried within the case, with propellant and such being around it. The idea is to reduce the size and bulk of a round, but still having as much power, or more power than a cartridge of similar length. Picture is for a 40mm cannon cartridge, but basic idea is there
Very cool Thanks.

Never seen anything like this before so it will be interesting to see where this goes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CamoDeafie

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
UGH, can I just carry a 7.62X39 already?
Let me see if I can find the article were the Army brass were saying what they wanted the new round to be able to do...
Kowal couldn't share ballistics data but confirmed that the muzzle energies of current intermediate caliber systems are "two to five times" higher than 5.56mm.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...cs-will-make-soldiers-marines-a-lot-deadlier/

it also seems like they're going for a round that so far, is only possible on paper.....(as in hypotheticals), and supposedly will defeat all the body armors on the market, and outclass rifle cartridges for years to come :rolleyes:

(I think the old .30-06 would be more than sufficient......Imagine that in a reliable AR-10 type platform...)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
UGH, can I just carry a 7.62X39 already?
7.62 x 39 is pretty good until you get to beyond about 300 yards. The bullet drop then becomes very significant. This new military 6.8 millimeter rifle round will likely have less bullet drop at 550 yards than 7.62 x 39 at 375 yards.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'll believe it when I see it. So far, it's all research and development.
I have read it is more than that now. They have what they want and they already have over one billion dollars in funds set aside for the purpose of implementing the more powerful rifle round. Time will show if this information is true though.
 
1 - 20 of 119 Posts
Top