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Looking at the new 6.8 millimeter General Purpose Cartridge design I really do not see much advantages to it over the 7.62 x 51. Bullet drop might be a little less than the 7.62 millimeter at longer ranges but that is it. I read the bullet weight on the 6.8 millimeter round is 140 grains. Bullet weight on 7.62 x 51 is 147 grain. They should have went with about 120 grain bullets in my opinion.

Maybe nothing is set yet and they are still experimenting but to me it just looks like someone just trying to make $$$ off of a government contract. They should have just went back to 7.62 x 51 if they are going to go with a 140 grain bullet on the 6.8 millimeter round.
7.62x51 is heavy in bulk, has a lot more recoil, and more muzzle blast. You don't want all that indoors. It's not just a question of ballistics. That's why this is a "General Purpose" round.

The best tool for every situation is not always the biggest hammer you can find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
7.62x51 is heavy in bulk, has a lot more recoil, and more muzzle blast. You don't want all that indoors. It's not just a question of ballistics. That's why this is a "General Purpose" round.

The best tool for every situation is not always the biggest hammer you can find.
Maybe I am jumping the gun and casting judgment too early on the 6.8 millimeter General Purpose Cartridge design. I am sure the round will beat 5.56 x 45 performance. I just hope it gets into the hands of many of our soldiers unlike previous implementing failures of new rifles. They have been trying to switch from the M-4 and M-16 for over fifteen years now I believe.

Magazine capacity in my opinion will be twenty-five with the new 6.8 millimeter round.
 
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Discussion Starter · #83 ·

Sig Sauer won a contract to produce some 6.8 General Purpose Cartridge rifles. The above picture is a prototype. It looks like a twenty to twenty-five round magazine. I wonder what the barrel length is going to be.
 

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Sig Sauer won a contract to produce some 6.8 General Purpose Cartridge rifles. The above picture is a prototype. It looks like a twenty to twenty-five round magazine. I wonder what the barrel length is going to be.
Probably between 11 and 14 inches. Sig is selling the silencer as part of the package too, so that's nice.

There are 4 (or 3?) other companies that won the same contract, one of whom is using the "telescoped" round. They have to make several dozen guns and a whole pile of ammo for testing, and the ammo has no requirement except to push the 6.8 pill the military likes, to the required velocity, and do it reliably, so it will be interesting to see who wins it, and how. Personally, I have a HARD time saying yes, put all our eggs in one basket, so unless Sig is significantly better within the price range, I'm not sure they should get the bid.

But if they licensed the design and let others build it....maybe?

And that CT round with the polymer case is really interesting, being lighter and probably shorter. But they aren't showing the guns yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·

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Well...that’s one design. There are several.
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·

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ONE OF the prototypes....
So in short, the old 6,8 SPC will spawn the new military GPC which may or may not be a close approximation of the older wildcat round. How far off are we before we get mil-surp ammo on this, in your humble opinion?

Let alone whole weapons...
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
I am guessing it will be a few years before firearms and ammunition are available to the free state citizens. From what I read, this is not verified, the new military round will be a 6.8 x 51 millimeter cartridge. The new bullet weight will be about 135 grain. Again, that is not verified so that information could be wrong.

I am probably not going to be interested until this rifle round gets really common. .308 Winchester and .300 AAC Blackout are all I need for rifles at the present.
 

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I give it about a year before the Pentagon cancels yet another program to replace 5.56 and 7.62 NATO :rolleyes:
Seriously. The Army was talking about a new rifle, a new pistol, and a new PT test at various times for about 10 years before I retired. The Army Times made it sound like that stuff was all just around the corner. They finally came out with the new pistol and the new PT test, both, after I was out.

That rifle won't come out for probably another 10 years if it even does come out.
 

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The Army usually doesn’t buy the first gen thing and call it a day. They MIGHT buy a thousand of whatever wins the trials, and try them out for 6-8 months, then ask for changes, that will take a year, then troop trials again, and IF it’s OK, then make the move over a few years. So a decade...like Think1st said.

Or decide after troops get their hands on it that it sucks in real life use, no matter what the trials showed.

Or they might get done with trials and say nope...this is stupid, the stuff doesn’t work like we thought, and we are better off not going to the new stuff. That’s the usual result, like 90% of the time.
 

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So...I called it.

"The Army is in the final phase of evaluating NGSW prototypes from General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems Inc., Textron Systems and Sig Sauer Inc. to replace the 5.56mm M4A1 carbine and the M249 squad automatic weapon in infantry and other close-combat units.

If all goes as planned, Army modernization officials will select the final design for the rifle and automatic rifle variants from a single firm in the first quarter of 2022 and begin fielding them a year later."

https://www.military.com/daily-news...weapon-big-hit-socom.html?ESRC=army_200519.nl

Note...<<<>>> in 2022. Then they'd have to tool up to produce a few thousand, field test some more, tweak, modify, re-tool, re-test, tweak...

It's gonna be a while folks.
This is ONE of the types...maybe. Looks suspiciously like a mock-up, to me.



And then there's this...

"The NGSW's auto rifle variant is so promising that PEO SOF Warrior may not go forward with a separate effort to develop a light machine gun chambered for 6.5mm Creedmoor, he added.

"We have currently put our 6.5mm Creedmoor lightweight machine gun on hold pending the results of the Next Generation Squad Weapon," Babbitt said."

Ummmm....WTF? 6.5CM is pretty nifty for some things, but is NOT a value added general issue replacement for 7.62 NATO in the LMG. That's just crazy talk.

The 6.8 in whatever form it ends up as COULD make sense, even if it is .308 light in terminal effect, as it simplifies logistics. The 6.5, piled on top of a different rifle round, while simultaneously requiring the cost and effort of a complete turn in and re-issue of all new LMG's, is just insane. You'd be doing two complete supply chains of ammo, two complete supply chains of guns and parts and support, and frankly, as a machine gun....what would the 6.5 CM bring to the table over the 7.62 NATO or the 6.8 mystery round?
 

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Discussion Starter · #95 ·
They may possibly eventually replace both of the 7.62 x 51 and 5.56 x 45 rifles with a 6.8 millimeter round.

I think many long range shooters will keep their 7.62 x 51 and other calibers (.338 Lapua) for a longer period of time. But eventually a 6.8 millimeter round would replace a lot of them if it is effective out to about 900 yards.
 

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They may possibly eventually replace both of the 7.62 x 51 and 5.56 x 45 rifles with a 6.8 millimeter round.

I think many long range shooters will keep their 7.62 x 51 and other calibers (.338 Lapua) for a longer period of time. But eventually a 6.8 millimeter round would replace a lot of them if it is effective out to about 900 yards.
Well....yeah, that's what I pointed out that the article says.

Long range shooters NOT in the military? Yeah, they'll stay with reloadable brass cartridges unless prices, and accuracy say otherwise. And that's a long way off still.

Military long range shooters? They'll shoot what the supply chain gives them.

No idea WHAT the actual ballistics are on the ammo:

"So far, the service has been tightlipped about the specifics of the 6.8mm ammunition except to say it will provide increased lethality at longer ranges compared to the current M855A1 5.56mm ammunition."

Which tells you nothing at all.
And we still don't know it it will be the plastic ammo, or the telescoped round.
 

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Let me dump this video here. It's really long, yet very informative. Tons of logic tossed in. Costs, weight which will include transport as a consideration, and capacity + other factors. This guy's analytical deductions are pretty well thought out.

 
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Let me dump this video here. It's really long, yet very informative. Tons of logic tossed in. Costs, weight which will include transport as a consideration, and capacity + other factors. This guy's analytical deductions are pretty well thought out.

That guy is pretty funny, he actually made that video with more "authentic" input than some of what he does. Decent job.
 

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That guy is pretty funny, he actually made that video with more "authentic" input than some of what he does. Decent job.
And did it without the "White board of knowledge!!!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #100 ·
A new update from the United States Army on April 20th 2021.

The U.S. Army is bracing for a possible large budget cut in fiscal 2022, a defense official told Defense News.

The service is preparing contingencies should it face a “huge cut,” which means the Army would potentially have to put modernization and readiness “at risk,” the official said.

The Army would need to look at ways to more effectively maintain readiness and would possibly have to slow-roll development and procurement schedules for major modernization efforts the service sees as critical to deterring adversaries in the future.


This possibly means the new 6.8 millimeter rifles may be delayed or cancelled. Good old Bejing Biden administration strikes again in my opinion. I think the new replacement rifle program will not happen for a long time now.
 
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