Using laser trainers in 995TS ?

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by carryartist, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. carryartist

    carryartist Member

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    Hello all. Been a member for a while, but haven't had time to be very active. This is my first post. So- does anyone out there have any experience using a Laserlyte training cartridge in their Hi-Point carbine? I use a 9mm trainer in my handguns, and would like to try it in my 995TS.
     
  2. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    :welcome:carryartist!!!
    I see no reason that it would not work... :confused:
    How do you get the laser to work in a C9?
    Does it work only when you pull the trigger?
     

  3. carryartist

    carryartist Member

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    Looks like my wording led you to believe I was using the training cartridge with a Hi-Point C9. I have been using it in an XD9 and a SCCY, but I assume it would be just the same with a C9. You insert the laser cartridge in the chamber, just like using a bore sighter. When you pull the trigger, the firing pin strikes a pressure pad on the back of the training cartridge, and the laser on the bullet end lights up for a very small fraction of a second.
    My question is probably the result of my ignorance about the way the 995TS ejects rounds, and how hard the laser cartridge would be struck by the firing mechanism. I don't want to damage the training cartridge, or the gun.
    Just trying to get in some dry-fire practice. Maybe I should stick to snap caps.
     
  4. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    The HP's use an extractor key to hold the shell and the firing pin as the ejector, but the pressure of the firing pin during dry-firing won't be any worse than any other firearm you have used it in.
     
  5. carryartist

    carryartist Member

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    Thanks! Needed that info.
     
  6. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    You're questions so far have been answered but here are a few other things to consider.

    First, HP firearms aren't double action. They require the slide or the breach block to reciprocate in order to reset the firing pin. After every trigger pull, you'd have to cycle the "bolt" far enough that it latched the firing pin on the sear. This would eject your trainer.

    Second, what distance would you be practicing at? 9mm isn't exactly a "flat" shooting cartridge and your practical distance where actual POI is the close enough with the bore axis (straight) line of sight is going to be pretty short. For less than an inch or so bullet drop, you're going to be limited to about 25 yards, IMS. At 50 yards the drop becomes pretty significant. Might be a bit better because it's a longer barrel. But, this also brings in the issues of your sighting system. If you have it sighted at 50 yards, for instance, then you've got "bullet rise" at 25 yards built in. The short version is that the actual trajectory of the bullet is an arc but the laser will only describe a straight line. There are only going to be two points where the laser is painting POI and everything else is going to be some variation of above or below. Exactly what, where, and how much depends on how you've got it sighted in. Just something to keep in mind. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  7. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    KLAWSON and RACH know whence they speak...

    I would think one could disable the extractor for training,
    so you could reset the firing pin. Lots of work for a trainer
    in a carbine, I'd almost think a dedicated unit would be best.

    Great for a "point and shoot" exercise, but having to reload
    the laser cartridge would get old :p
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I suspect that would just cause "jams." The FP acts as the "ejector" and, after releasing from the sear, it remains in the forward, "sticking out," position and pushing against the Primer of the cartridge (or the switch on the trainer, but it's the same place as the primer). In order to withdraw and reset the FP, the Breech Block still needs to be reciprocated (by hand). So the Breech Block is going backwards, manually, and nothing is keeping the cartridge/trainer in the chamber. It's free to fall any direction which gravity pulls it. If you keep the barrel pointed down while you're jacking the bolt, gravity will keep the cartridge in the chamber, but don't tilt it any direction but down!

    Seems like kinda a pain to me too. But I guess if you're inside city limits and have 20-25 yards in your back yard, you could probably get some snap-shooting training out of the deal. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  9. carryartist

    carryartist Member

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    Thanks for the excellent info. You confirmed some things for me that I needed to understand. I had considered your point about the bolt ejecting the laser cartridge, but was unsure. I have to cycle my XD9 slide after every shot with the trainer, so I mostly limit my laser practice with that gun to one cartridge trainer shot for each exercise..any additional shots required are simply trigger pulls with no firing pin strike. I don't want to embed the habit of cycling the slide for every trigger pull into my reflexes. I speculated that the same recycling action would be needed for the 995TS, with the factor of the rifle's bolt added to that.. That's why I wondered about any damage to the trainer due to the force of the ejection, not to mention the pointlessness of re-inserting it for every shot.

    Actual bullet trajectory versus the perceived POI of the laser is another matter. Thanks for pointing that out. It would be very easy to get a false picture if I relied on the laser for anything other than very short distances. My laser practice was only going to involve short distances of up to 10 yards, but it's good to have that point reinforced. It would be easy for me to forget.

    Looks like I'm sticking to snap caps for my 995TS dry-fire practice. Adapt and learn.
     
  10. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Are you using irons or an optic on your 995?

    If you're using optics, one possible option is to get a .177 air rifle and put the same optic on it.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  11. carryartist

    carryartist Member

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    I'm using irons at the moment. I'm looking into getting a red dot that I can co-witness with the factory sights. Looks like it has to be micro to install without removing the rear sight. Thanks for the suggestion. An air rifle is also on my wish list.
     
  12. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Oh no, young grasshopper. I have covered that option covered as well...
     

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  13. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I made a shortened (length and height) HP rear sight, it
    should work with most any RDS setup I have seen... Except
    maybe an EoTech, but they are rarely used on HP carbines :rofl:
     
  14. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Now this is on my 4095, but you get the idea.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I cut at the red lines so as to avoid having to make new holes
    in the sight and rail, but mine a bit larger than his also...
     

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  16. ndindy

    ndindy Member

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    Laser trainers cost more and don't work as well as regular dry fire practice.
     
  17. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Depends on your application. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  18. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    [​IMG]


    Still LOVE YA, Big Bro!!! :D
     
  19. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    It was only one hole, through three surfaces. Pilot hole through the plastic, metal, and rail. Then tap the rail, and widen the hole through the sight and sight body with a countersink bit. Easy peasy.
     
  20. carryartist

    carryartist Member

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    Very interesting. An option I hadn't considered. What did you use to make the cuts? I'm stealing your photos, by the way, both yours and Mole's.