Wake up Arizona, and everyone else.

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by unclerob, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. unclerob

    unclerob Member

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  2. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    Ok, I don't like this.

    From what I can determine, this bill hasn't been voted in, but I can see it going either way in this state. If I'm required to have coded ammo after Jan 1, 2009, does that mean reloading your own ammo is going to be illegal?

    And, at the same time, if I am in possession of say, surplus "assualt rifle" ammo (Whatever the hell that means.....) from another country made 20, 30 or even 50 years ago before this "technology" was even around, does that make owning such C and R grade ammo illegal as well?

    This is surely going to be something that I will be watching closely.
     

  3. TexasD

    TexasD Member

    Neo, ALL ammo that is not coded will have to be disposed of.

    B. BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 2011, A PRIVATE CITIZEN OR A RETAIL VENDOR SHALL DISPOSE OF ALL NONCODED AMMUNITION THAT IS OWNED OR HELD BY THE CITIZEN OR VENDOR.
     
  4. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    Kind of reminds me of the old Stailn/Kruchev era where every camera and lens had to be "coded" and recorded by the state. When audio recording devices came out, they faced even more strict regulation.....

    Including the coding of vinyl and magnetic tape.

    For this Democratic Socalist, this is a BIT too Communistic for my tastes. All I know is that this bill needs to face resistance. I'm NOT giving up my legally purchased ammo just because they're worried the .001 percent of gun owners who MIGHT commit a crime that MIGHT not be able to be traced by current methods.

    In comparison to California's insane "stamping" laws, this seems downright open minded....compared to California that is.
     
  5. write your legislators man. tell em its BS.
     
  6. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    Oh, going WAY beyond that....

    If there's one thing us Liberals know how to do is act on Political issues. Looks like I might have to pass on the new gun and get that camcorder I was looking at. Ideas are forming.
     
  7. TnShooter83

    TnShooter83 Guest

    It is also presented in Tennessee....
    Many local gun shops have taken action, and many citizens.
    This isn't the first time they have tried to passes this Bill in Tn.

    The last time is was DOA.
    This time it looks the same way DOA.


    As for Az, they will pass the lead ban before ammo coding.
    They are/will pass it under the wildlife protection section.
    All due to the Condor (bird).
     
  8. Sniper 995

    Sniper 995 Guest

    This only seems rational. If they can fingerprint us why not fingerprint our ammo. I have nothing to hide.
     
  9. rrjenn

    rrjenn Guest

    Another step toward removing all danger to law abiding citizens. What could be wrong in that? Janis Joplin was right when she said freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. When they have taken every freedom you have, you will be free from all possible dangerous people wielding guns with uncoded bullets in them :wink:
     
  10. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    My issue is not the coding. I have registered serial numbers for all my firearms, and have no problem for the world to know I own a firearm.

    BUT....

    To tell me that I cannot reload my own ammo, and that equipment purchased when it was full and legal is NOW illegal simply because some upper class state senator said so really gets at me. It's sort of like when I was in New York and I was told that owning a Gigercounter was illegal. WHY? Because someone said so. I wasn't a threat to anyone, and used a rather fancy version to check for radiation output of lighting insturments. But, because some state senator decided that someone who owns a gigercounter has a .001 percent chance of being a terroist, we should ban them all except for government use.

    I will build what is legal, only if I am given the same concessions as the manufacturer. I can build a car, I can build a house. Why can't I make my own ammo? It's my RIGHT as a citizen, and there is no precedent towards banning uncoded ammo.
     
  11. Sniper 995

    Sniper 995 Guest

    I just don't see the big deal. I am sure they will allow us to still buy ammo, cost might go up a tiny bit. As far as reloading, well we are in a war on terror, and statistics show that 85% of all terrorists use reloaded ammo.
     
  12. TnShooter83

    TnShooter83 Guest

    The deal is, it's not going to work....All it is going to do is cause ammunition to increase in price.

    Criminals are smart, and it's not hard to think of MANY ways to
    commit a crime, and not leave any shell cases. Auto, or revolver.

    Next is the part where I'm going to dispose all my "old" ammunition.
    Ok...Well then they are going to compensate me for FULL retail price of the cost + tax? How about all my reloading equipment? I want all that money back also?

    I asked my state congressman man that introduced this in Tennessee this question.

    To this day I still have not received an answer.

    Sorry if this sound as if I'm being harsh. But this is my hobby.
    As far as I'm concern a golf club is a weapon. If you use it to bludgeoned some one, they call it that right?

    Well let tax them and see how they like it?
     
  13. That is so much BS it's beyond words.
     
  14. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    Ok, let's break this down:

    -ALL ammo must be coded. Any ammo that is NOT will be deemed ILLEGAL! This means that the 500 rounds of 7.62x54r I bought last week will be illegal to even own in 2009. This also means that if you reload a used shell, you are committing an illegal act. This ALSO means that if you custom load shells for hunting or sport, you are also in violation of the law. It's like someone telling you the car you bought is illegal because it runs on petrol. The fuel was legal when you bought the car, and everything else about the car adheres to DOT regulations, but since it ran on petrol it's now a felony to even own.

    -" ...we are in a war on terror, and statistics show that 85% of all terrorists use reloaded ammo". So, WHAT statistics say this? And, if you use reloaded ammo, does that mean that 85% of us on this board are terrorists? Also, the US government is fighting forces, some of whom use terroristic acts in combat, but that does not mean that each and every person is in a "war on terror". That is a vauge statement at best. I also fail to see how ME loading my own ammo supports terrorism, unless you're calling me a terrorist for loading my own ammo.

    -"... I am sure they will still allow us to buy ammo". It is a right set in the constitution for the right to bear arms, and ammo is a key component to all firearms just as a trigger spring and or gunpowder. There should not be a "They" that I have to ask permission in order to exercise my right as a legal, tax paying citizen. The bill also fails to explain WHAT the extra tax on this ammo will be used for. Does it go to building new freeways? Stadiums? Anti-Gun campaigns? Politcical campaign funding? Childcare? Blanket bills designed to solicit more money for faceless, nameless groups may be par for the course in politics, but when they infringe upon the rights of citizens in order to gain that money, then they cross the line.

    This is NOT a little "irritation". They have gone beyond the line of acceptable by trying to find a worm-hole around a basic ammendment. By this act they can control who gets ammo and who cannot. And, without ammo, guns are worthless. But that's ok: They "let" us have our guns. They never said anything about ammo.
     
  15. Sniper 995

    Sniper 995 Guest

    I am not saying everyone who reloads is a terrorist, just most terrorists use reloaded ammo. Most terrorists wear shoes, but wearing shoes does not make you a terrorist. I think they are just trying to get all this reloaded ammo off the streets and out of the terrorists hands. They are giving everyone a year or more to shoot up all this rogue ammo. The reloading equipment can be sold on ebay to states that don't have the new ammo law.
     
  16. Mike_AZ

    Mike_AZ U.S.S. Member

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    How many terrorists are reloading their ammo in AZ? For that matter, in the US? How many terrorists will stop reloading their ammo if this law goes into effect? This does nothing to get ammo out of the hands of terrorists.
     
  17. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    I would REALLY love to see some CONCRETE proof that reloaded ammo from Central and Northern Arizona is being used by the Taliban and the like. Really. Show me some evidence that the reloads and bulk ammo I buy from a very reputable dealer is funding the evil terrorists.

    Who compiled this report? How old is it? Where was the surveys done? Who took part in this study?

    And, how "kind" of the state to give me a year before they start persecuting me for exercising my rights as a citizen. Why they should get a medal or something....

    In short, and let me see if I got this right, I should feel privilaged and not so ungrateful that they're taking away my ability to load my own ammo as a responsible citizen because they're "protecting me" from the terrorists? Did I vote on this?

    Oh yeah, I don't get a right to vote on this bill. I forgot. But hey, what's good for homeland security in the name of the "war on terror" is good for everyone. Right?

    Just think of it this way: You are no longer allowed to own a saw, a sander or a drill because such tools contribute to the destruction of the ozone layer because they are used to fabricate wood into furniture, and that's going to be illegal. Oh, and your garden hose, electric lawn mower and rake are now illegal too because those pretentious gardens and yards take too much water and some part of the world is in a drought, and we need to do our part on the "War on Droughts" even when your water doesn't come from a drought region, but they're still illegal because they MIGHT contribute to it.

    Flawed arguement. Instant fail.
     
  18. rrjenn

    rrjenn Guest

    Sure. Sounds reasonable. What are they going to want next? Implanted Id chips? Maybe that they can trace your every move with? A government that I could trust, I could trust not to abuse such things, but I don't trust any government, and I know that absolute power corrupts absolutely, so why give them all this power. That is why I don't desire they're intrusion into my privacy. I don't encourage 1984, but I do see it coming. Remember these words, "I thought I had nothing to hide until I needed to hide, but there was no place left to hide." Oh and they can't fingerprint you unless you're arrested.
     
  19. rrjenn

    rrjenn Guest

    Unless maybe it's us that they're afraid of.