So, how do you all weigh in?
With a good pair of scales! :wink: But on the rest I'll have to get back to ya on that.
With a good pair of scales! :wink: But on the rest I'll have to get back to ya on that.
Weight that matters
Hey guys,
Most people here have some sort of plan for SHTF and have gathered gear accordingly. In a scenario where you can only have what you can carry (vs. having a bug-out vehicle fully stocked with weapons, ammunition, and the kitchen sink) weight and the management thereof is (in my mind) extremely important.
So...
How much does your BOB weigh? And what percentage (roughly) of that weight falls into:
Weapons/Ammo
Food
Medical supplies
Tools
Clothes
Other (please describe if possible)
The reason I ask is the tendancy I've noticed for survival-minded individuals (myself included) to put a heavy emphasis on food-gathering gear (frog gigs, spears, snares, traps, fishing kits, gutting/skinning gear, cooking kits, &c.) and weapons, and less on carrying foodstuffs. Now, I completely understand that an energy bar fills you once and a .22 and a cookpot keep you fuller longer, but there's the issue of speed of travel in an environment that might be changing rapidly. Setting up a basecamp and foraging might not be an option. This concept has me rethinking my BOB management.
So, how do you all weigh in?
Truly honest individuals might include what their BOB weight is as compared to their own personal weight. My long-range BOB vs. body weight is about 80/145.
-'bridge
Most people here have some sort of plan for SHTF and have gathered gear accordingly. In a scenario where you can only have what you can carry (vs. having a bug-out vehicle fully stocked with weapons, ammunition, and the kitchen sink) weight and the management thereof is (in my mind) extremely important.
So...
How much does your BOB weigh? And what percentage (roughly) of that weight falls into:
Weapons/Ammo
Food
Medical supplies
Tools
Clothes
Other (please describe if possible)
The reason I ask is the tendancy I've noticed for survival-minded individuals (myself included) to put a heavy emphasis on food-gathering gear (frog gigs, spears, snares, traps, fishing kits, gutting/skinning gear, cooking kits, &c.) and weapons, and less on carrying foodstuffs. Now, I completely understand that an energy bar fills you once and a .22 and a cookpot keep you fuller longer, but there's the issue of speed of travel in an environment that might be changing rapidly. Setting up a basecamp and foraging might not be an option. This concept has me rethinking my BOB management.
So, how do you all weigh in?
Truly honest individuals might include what their BOB weight is as compared to their own personal weight. My long-range BOB vs. body weight is about 80/145.
-'bridge
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Well to be blunt.. I am 5'11" and just over 200lbs... My "Get Home Gear" (linked in sig), minus rifle weighs in at about 35 lbs... This can go up quite a bit as I add more water than my acceptable standard.
I keep my gear in my truck, or a partial version (the panel pack) with me if I must leave the whole kit somewhere...
What are your Goals?
I keep my gear in my truck, or a partial version (the panel pack) with me if I must leave the whole kit somewhere...
I think this depends on how long you really intend to Bug Out... what your true expectation of the situation will be... This will be different for most everyone... Some just want to get home.. Others want to hide out till everything calms down.. And yet others want to have everything on hand to settle and repopulate "New Markistanland"I've noticed for survival-minded individuals (myself included) to put a heavy emphasis on food-gathering gear (frog gigs, spears, snares, traps, fishing kits, gutting/skinning gear, cooking kits, &c.) and weapons, and less on carrying foodstuffs.
What are your Goals?
I'm a Bug in Guy with a get home bag that weighs about 25-30 pounds. This includes water, pistol and lots of hope.
Actually "bugging out" on foot might be the BEST thing to do depending on where you live.billybybose said:bugging out on foot with a backpack is crazy.
Ever been to New York City? Ever try to get around on a GOOD day?
When it hits the fan, you are NOT getting out of there any other way than with your Nikes. Same with places like Chicago or San Fransisco. Large cities depend on smooth infastructure. Disrupt that and the entire system becomes a hinderance instead of a help.
When I lived in Belfast, most of my friends and their families never owned a car. Didn't need one. With a compact population that depends on a rail system, the infastructure aspect changes. Other cities, such as Phoenix, New Orleans, or Dallas you DO need a car, since they are so far spread out and progression needs a car.
But if I'm in the Bronx and need to get out of dodge, I'm going to foot it. Stand a far better chance to get OUT of a city so I could then make ;]bugging out on foot with a backpack is crazy.[/quote]
Actually "bugging out" on foot might be the BEST thing to do depending on where you live.
Ever been to New York City? Ever try to get around on a GOOD day?
When it hits the fan, you are NOT getting out of there any other way than with your Nikes. Same with places like Chicago or San Fransisco. Large cities depend on smooth infastructure. Disrupt that and the entire system becomes a hinderance instead of a help.
When I lived in Belfast, most of my friends and their families never owned a car. Didn't need one. With a compact population that depends on a rail system, the infastructure aspect changes. Other cities, such as Phoenix, New Orleans, or Dallas you DO need a car, since they are so far spread out and progression needs a car.
But if I'm in the Bronx and need to get out of dodge, I'm going to foot it. Stand a far better chance to get OUT of a city so I could then make my next move.
You can also invest in a pedal bike.
HMM, I wonder if I can still even ride one of those???
HMM, I wonder if I can still even ride one of those???
I expect my bag to meet my needs, and those of anyone with me, for a period of several days in either an urban or rural environment. If it's just me, I can use the bag and travel at need, whether towards home or away from danger. Living in a rural area, it's standard practice to drive 30-40 miles to shop. Having to hike that distance home while navigating the difficulties of a disaster scenario certainly falls in the realm of possibility.
If I have others in my watchcare, the range of my bag (I measure my kits in time and distance) is limited and setting up camp is the more likely scenario. My bag is my food, my water, my shelter. Besides meeting my immediate physiological needs it allows me to "stay human"; a very important psychological advantage in a disaster scenario. The ability to wash one's face and brush one's teeth goes a long way towards maintaining sanity and the proper mindset.
In its most recent evolution, I would say my bag would keep me going on-foot for nearly a week without foraging, scavenging, or starving. Setting up camp or going on raids would prolong survival indefinitely.
Demanding this much from my bag demands that my bag weigh so much. Its weight might seem a disadvantage, but in a survival situation I figure it will become lighter far sooner than I'd like it to.
-'bridge
If I have others in my watchcare, the range of my bag (I measure my kits in time and distance) is limited and setting up camp is the more likely scenario. My bag is my food, my water, my shelter. Besides meeting my immediate physiological needs it allows me to "stay human"; a very important psychological advantage in a disaster scenario. The ability to wash one's face and brush one's teeth goes a long way towards maintaining sanity and the proper mindset.
In its most recent evolution, I would say my bag would keep me going on-foot for nearly a week without foraging, scavenging, or starving. Setting up camp or going on raids would prolong survival indefinitely.
Demanding this much from my bag demands that my bag weigh so much. Its weight might seem a disadvantage, but in a survival situation I figure it will become lighter far sooner than I'd like it to.
-'bridge
My get home bag is on the heavy side, I havent weighed it, but I am thinking in the 50 - 60 pound range without weapons ( I tip the scales at 250). My emphasis has been on fire, renewable water (filter and treatment tabs), some food plus food gathering (guns and ammo mostly) shelter and basic first aid. My needs are a little different in that I live in a very rural area, I work at a mobile job site that varies from 20 to 120 miles from the house. My bags sole purpose is to get me home. (the only scenerio that would put me walking home would be a EMP that took out most of the auto's. Anything else, I would drive or be able to catch a ride.) I need to be able to live out of this bag for 2 days - 2 weeks in all seasons. (100+ in the summer and as low as -30 in the winter). I am glad you brought up the subject, as it reminds me that I need to catalogue everything in my bag.
As far as the walking home, I'm thinking of panic stricken motorists clogging the roads to the extent of immobility. Also, some a major storm could damage the infrastructure to failure. Although some people feel safe from earthquakes in NE Ohio, they're ignorant of the fact that we're sitting on top of a major faultline. In any of these cases, travel is going to be a high priority but ease of travel not guaranteed. Thus, I'm thinking that the chances of me having the time and energy to set up a handful of deadfalls and a trotline are slim. Moving to the objective takes priority. As a result, my weapons are chosen more with assault/defense in mind, not hunt/gather. They'll do in a pinch, it's just not what they're designed for. Foodstuffs are going in where some of my gear isn't.
However. With the advent of MOLLE and the fact that my BOB is MOLLE compatible, it occurs to me that I can have everything strapped on to the BOB in modules such that I could easily dispense with a portion as the situation dictates.
So, I offer another scenario: if you had to leave an urban/suburban setting, knowing vehicular transport was at a standstill, had to move quickly a distance of 40 miles across farmland, woods, small towns, and roads in the weather that's currently outside your window, and had to pick 25 pounds of kit/gun/food/gear to start with (you can gather more as you go), what're you gonna pack?
-'bridge
PS And what if, on your hike, you run into other individuals in the same situation, trying to get back home? Band together or fly solo?
However. With the advent of MOLLE and the fact that my BOB is MOLLE compatible, it occurs to me that I can have everything strapped on to the BOB in modules such that I could easily dispense with a portion as the situation dictates.
So, I offer another scenario: if you had to leave an urban/suburban setting, knowing vehicular transport was at a standstill, had to move quickly a distance of 40 miles across farmland, woods, small towns, and roads in the weather that's currently outside your window, and had to pick 25 pounds of kit/gun/food/gear to start with (you can gather more as you go), what're you gonna pack?
-'bridge
PS And what if, on your hike, you run into other individuals in the same situation, trying to get back home? Band together or fly solo?
G
No one here is going to keel over from malnutrition if they miss a meal or two. You really do not need to worry about food, except as a luxury item, for 7 days. You might not like it, but you would live. so you lose 20 pounds in two weeks, people pay big money for that!
Most studied observers have declared the "Bug out" principle useless unless it is done well before the crisis. If one looks back on real emergency evacuations in real disasters you will find that the only ones that work are those put into operation well in advance.
You will be turned away by armed military force at the bridge, just like in Katrina and the friendly rural farmers will shoot you for "gathering" as you pass through their land. Don't kid yourself, most rural types are better armed than you might think and they do more shooting than the average urbanite. Those rocks along the driveway are range markers.
Most studied observers have declared the "Bug out" principle useless unless it is done well before the crisis. If one looks back on real emergency evacuations in real disasters you will find that the only ones that work are those put into operation well in advance.
You will be turned away by armed military force at the bridge, just like in Katrina and the friendly rural farmers will shoot you for "gathering" as you pass through their land. Don't kid yourself, most rural types are better armed than you might think and they do more shooting than the average urbanite. Those rocks along the driveway are range markers.
Yes Neo- right on. I lived in NYC during 9/11 and the blackout of '02.
No freakin' way you could move except by foot. No guns in the city either (legally). Cars? No way. Subways were shut down. All surface traffic stopped.
Bridges and tunnels closed. People became animals.
It was very weird. Your have to survive with your wits.
the biggest thing that hit home was - Water is priority. The stuff of life.
Well, anyway- I'm far from the city now!
No freakin' way you could move except by foot. No guns in the city either (legally). Cars? No way. Subways were shut down. All surface traffic stopped.
Bridges and tunnels closed. People became animals.
It was very weird. Your have to survive with your wits.
the biggest thing that hit home was - Water is priority. The stuff of life.
Well, anyway- I'm far from the city now!
G
I used to live off of fordham rd in the bronx(extended visit).I think if shtf is a serious priority your first move should be get out of the bigger cities.My threat assesment has shifted recently from crime to shtf.The house in the country was to lower the threat of urban crime and transitions well to a bug in shtf scenario but Im not ready for long term chaos.I saw all those people walking in N.Y. on 9/11 and when the levies broke in N.O. those people had it rough.I just dont think walking gives you good odds.Having said that a major part of my winter fitness program is humping my 35lbs ruck over the local mountans so if I had to walk I could but the wife and mother couldnt so its bug in or overland in the blazer.
Link?Most studied observers have declared the "Bug out" principle useless unless it is done well before the crisis.
And that is why I have topo maps, GPS fully programmed with way points in order I have chosen in preference. A compass and a normal street map.You will be turned away by armed military force at the bridge, just like in Katrina
If you think you can seal off a mid sized American city completely you are very mistaken. Will they seal the main points depending on the situation yes they may. Will they be able to seal every goat path backwoods shortcut and watch every inch of river? Not in a million years. If you know the area you can find out where the holes are. And how you can move through them.
Who said anything about stealing from farmers? I will have food in my pack when and if I have to stop to eat. Given my preference no one would even know I was there at all. I am not going to be trapped in a Katrina type situation. If you are not threatening someone a guardsman is very unlikely to shoot you. So the worst thing that is going to happen is you get turned around. No correction the worst thing that could happen is that you get detained and placed in a shelter. But I don’t think that they are going to spend a lot of time or energy trying to chase someone that is not threatening anyone down. The only real advantages they have is mobility. And in the case of helicopters and UAVs elevation. So stay small don’t threaten people and your odds are very good indeed of being able to get home or to your bug out point. No one is likely to bother someone that is in travel mode unless they are criminals. (Badge or not, not withstanding)and the friendly rural farmers will shoot you for "gathering" as you pass through their land. Don't kid yourself, most rural types are better armed than you might think and they do more shooting than the average urbanite. Those rocks along the driveway are range markers.
Katrina is indeed a perfect example. All the chaos and attention was focused on the north exits from town. Yet if you went south you can find over land routes out of the area. The thing is that everyone is thinking north and east. Not south and west. Do this in a city that is land locked and you are going to need 10s of thousands of troops and your own dang satellite to stop motivated and prepared individuals from bugging out. As for it not being possible to go out on foot. I would refer you to almost every modern war. Millions of people have fled wars on foot. Sometimes it is the only choice. It can be done and it has been done in every disaster and war in modern history. But preparing for it can mean the difference between an arduous trek home and a decent into Hades.
The option is yours.
I would put forward that where you are headed to is more important then where you are coming from. You need to not be “Just getting away.†You need to have someplace that you are heading to. Again the people that live out in the sticks or have family that does is better then just getting out of the war zone. And having a stocked retreat or home is the best yet.
You will be turned away by armed military force at the bridge, just like in Katrina
And that is why I have topo maps, GPS fully programmed with way points in order I have chosen in preference. A compass and a normal street map.
Great call i am glad to see the compass and map. lets face it to many people depend on there gps to save them, well gps doesnt always work.
KY Ratshooter wrote:
and the friendly rural farmers will shoot you for "gathering" as you pass through their land. Don't kid yourself, most rural types are better armed than you might think and they do more shooting than the average urbanite. Those rocks along the driveway are range markers.
You have no idea how close to the truth you are!!! :lol: :lol:
G
Link?
Here is a link to a great article about backpack fever...
http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/backpackfever.htm
Backpack fever (I've heard it called other things) has certainly gotten me a time or two.
Please read this article, even if it makes you spitting mad.
The solution the author describes is a viable one. It's no coincidence that the solution he provides is the situation I currently live in. If there's anyone out there that's brave enough to delve into this topic, I'll gladly start a thread. I'm afraid it'll make some people uncomfortable (as it did me) but uncomfortable is much better than dead.
I've been working with locals on a plan for some years now called Fortress. I'd be willing to share if anyone is interested.
-'bridge
Please read this article, even if it makes you spitting mad.
The solution the author describes is a viable one. It's no coincidence that the solution he provides is the situation I currently live in. If there's anyone out there that's brave enough to delve into this topic, I'll gladly start a thread. I'm afraid it'll make some people uncomfortable (as it did me) but uncomfortable is much better than dead.
I've been working with locals on a plan for some years now called Fortress. I'd be willing to share if anyone is interested.
-'bridge
The Rube has many good points. But go but that was not the point of my post. The point(s) were thatLink?
Here is a link to a great article about backpack fever...
http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/backpackfever.htm
(A) what exactly is a surival expert.? As the world as we know it does not end on a regular bases most of what you here on the net is from self proclaimed experts (who are usually selling a book or equipment) or people that are or have lived through a local economic implosion. And they are rarely selling anything. And they are rarely easy to find.
(B) I am not advocating running off to a national forest. I am of the bug IN crowd. BUT how often are you at home? There is a very good and real chance that the fecal matter will impact the rotating blades when you are no where near your expensively maintained and meticulously planned home. And for people that live in large citys? If you don't have someplace to go life would be real hard if the trucks stopped rolling and the electricity stopped. In fact your odds of making it in a city are very remote indeed. Post SHTF big city living is as unrealistic as running off to a national forest. Assuming that you can keep warm (or cool) and that you have access to water, your greatest danger would be the people that live around you. You can not stay awake forever. And a modern house has about zero chance of protecting you from gunfire or firebombs.
And as I said on the old board how are your going to protect what little you can grow on a city lot? You plan to live in a big city after the SHTF get used to the taste of dog.
All the preps and supplies in the world won't do you won't do you any good if it is burned to ashes. If for what ever reason you can not live in a more rural setting or have family that does having a *stocked* retreat is mandatory. Even if it is a hunting cabin or a small place on a lake or whatever. And by stocked I am referring to everything you need for a year or even better two. Or as close as you can get to it. The idea is that if you do have to bug out from home you have someplace to go.
That is NOT "backpack survivalism. It is being realistic.
And unless you can guarantee that you will be within a days walk at all times of your retreat or home not having a BOB or a get home bag is foolish.
One year after an event is different some estimates say about 20% of the population will be left one year later. there will be plenty of space to grow things then.
I believe our local Fortress plan (although obviously untested) combines the best of all theories. Unfortunately, it's heavily dependent on your location, your relationships with those around you, and being generally unselfish. Laugh if you want, I still think it'll work.
-'bridge
-'bridge
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