[Rhodes]

Unless you are going to be shooting in contests 2MOA is plenty and keeps you out of ammo trouble. 308 as round of choice has almost no downside.

 

[Rhodes]

A lot of the AKs rep for poor accuracy was propaganda thrown out by the US to build up the M16 in the arms market.

I was at the outdoor 200M range with my Saiga and hitting good groups at 3MOA with a x39, guy that owned a WASR asked how I did that and told him the Saiga has a good barrel but mainly good ammo and zeroing properly. He looked at me and said "zeroing?", seems he had never zeroed the damn thing. Granted it takes a special tool but damn. People hear they are inaccurate and just seem to take it as truth. The thing I didnt tell him is its also more accurate at 100M than 50M as the BT bullet needs a bit to stabilize properly.

 

[Rhodes]

A lot of the AKs rep for poor accuracy was propaganda thrown out by the US to build up the M16 in the arms market.

I was at the outdoor 200M range with my Saiga and hitting good groups at 3MOA with a x39, guy that owned a WASR asked how I did that and told him the Saiga has a good barrel but mainly good ammo and zeroing properly. He looked at me and said "zeroing?", seems he had never zeroed the damn thing. Granted it takes a special tool but damn. People hear they are inaccurate and just seem to take it as truth. The thing I didnt tell him is its also more accurate at 100M than 50M as the BT bullet needs a bit to stabilize properly.

As to AKs the Saigas are the way to go. Have 4 and love them the fit is just right. For the SHTF 7.62x39 154 Gr SP should go ouch.

Wow four, I stuck with the x39 and 308 since it just seemed to cover the spectrum so nicely without breaking the bank. They wont win any competitions but then that isnt what they do. Im setting up the x39 for night/low light and the 308 as MBR. Yes you have to reload to get near M1A accuracy out of it (The good milled ones) but when you do now you have a weapon with zero downside and can literally have the receiver filled with mud and still operate, no other platform can make that claim.

 

[Rhodes]

I got to spend a couple of years tearing down cleaning and fixing M-16s and found its a great carbine if its clean. I have never seen or heard of a clean battlefield.

I dont try to squeeze the accuracy out of the 7.62x39, it is more than accurate enough for its job, no one sets marksmanship records at night and that's ok all hits count. The 308 however has lots of room for improvement and attention to ammo is well rewarded. Funny how people dont appreciate how important ammo is to accuracy. You don't have to be a wizard to cut group size in half.

For SHTF my choice is the ultimate small arms combat round just for being able to do it all, turns cover into concealment, reaches out at very long range to say hi, the round so good it converted Europe, my personal precision guided ordinance of choice .... the Winchester .308 7.62x51. Thank god it comes in AK.

Yeah I can be full of shit but its the good stuff.

 

[Rhodes]

Don't get me wrong I love the .308 and if I had a saiga .308 I would probably go to that before the 7.62x39, but if you are going to walk any distance that heavier ammo will add up quickly. I have a 3 day loadout that I jog in to stay used to the weight and it consists of 300 rounds of 62x39, if I had switched that out with 300 rounds of 62x51 I would be doubling my ammo weight. It is the reason we switched to 5.56 and I don't think it was a small reason. Again suit your weapon to the job, and if you live in a rural area and will be bugging in, weight is not a huge issue, but to the guys living in the city who will be walking or running away, the heavy .308 may not be the optimal round. I think you are better off with several weapons, you may have to leave some behind, but you can match what you pack to where you are going.

Congratulations on making the effort to be honestly prepared. Gotten to an Appleseed yet? Well worth the effort.

Its valid logic, you just have to keep in mind when the military, both US and USSR, choose these rounds it was for automatic fire reasons. The amount of ammo expended in that mode is horrid and accuracy just non-existent with any real recoil like the 308 (going auto on the M-14 was futile). So weight truly became an issue since load outs were huge. For instance, pre-assault weapon fire fights a rifleman would expend perhaps 40 rounds with a Garand while afterward 200 would be common even with the 3 round burst mode of the M-16.

Of course troops found auto-fire so ineffective they rarely employed it(and it made you a target), still the ammo usage was horrible perhaps for the reason of the ammo not being up to snuff perhaps other reasons account for the increase, I wont mention those for civil reasons. Either way you will need a lot less 308 to do the same job so when comparing load outs 200 rounds of 308 or 30/06 may well be as effective as much larger amounts of intermediate power cartridges.

On the subject of BoBs I take a different approach. The BoB is only for those situations where I may be unexpectedly cut off from home in some less than complete meltdown and must attempt to return for obvious reasons and retain some appearance of normality. My load out there is strictly 40SW pistol and folding carbine with six hi-cap mags that are common. Everything fits in a backpack even the supplies and would see me better armed than most adversaries and still not terribly weighted down. If bugging out in deed then of course other arrangements have been made.

 

[Rhodes]

i hope people remember when they are talking about how accurate they can shoot and what theyre rifle can do----

nobody is shooting back at them--just saying

It is preferred that you can reach out and touch the threat before they can tag you. In any situation that rifle will be easier to control especially with shaking hands (not the movie shaking you see sometimes but that low amplitude high frequency shaking that come from adrenaline). As for knowing what will happen when the fire goes goes both ways it all depends on training and you always wish you had more.

 

[Rhodes]

More braging then anything else but this seemed like a great place to post this, but I shot a sub MOA group with my Tech-sight equiped WASR-10 today, so I think my 7.62x69 is acceptable for accuracy in my book. One thing that should be added to the discusion is range and location. By that I mean if you live in a more open area a higher power higher velocity round would be benificial. If you live in a heavily woodedarea with a lot of brush, as I do, you should make sure your chosen round performs well in brush. If you live in a city range may not be an option and a 9mm carbine could be just the ticket.

Hmmm....pics.

Ive seen it done with a 308 Saiga shooting reloads but Ive never even heard of it from a WASR ever.

 

[Rhodes]

Nothing wrong with having an AK at all I have few myself and even a WASR can shoot good groups at times. But thats not its purpose never was and thank god for it. I picked up a Savage 10FCM in 308 this week and shooting sub-MOA is exactly what it is supposed to do. BTW that accu-trigger is just the best Ive ever used on a production weapon. Think Im going to give the Mosin and 54R ammo to my son for Xmas. Damn I spoil those kids.