What type of optic do i need?

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by HPlover, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. HPlover

    HPlover Member

    18
    16
    Texas
    I am a proud 995ts owner that really likes the factory iron sights, but need an optic for a specific application. I have only ever used iron sights on rifles/shotguns/pistols and have very limited knowledge of optics. Feel free to correct or question anything I write :confused:. I did forum searches on scopes, red-dots, reflex, co-witness, etc. but cuz of my limited optic knowledge they raised more questions than they answered.

    Background:

    25 yards we punch acceptable groups with iron sights.
    50 yards groups open more than expected as my old eyes now struggle.
    Looking to shoot 75-100 yards with some optic and maybe +P ammo.

    A friend wants my help with depredating coyotes and nuisance fur-bearing animals. Worst case shots would be 75-100 yards near sunrise or sunset, likely no night hunting.

    Parameters:
    1. Prefer to leave factory irons intact, either as primary, secondary, co-witness, whatever.
    2. Must be cheap (I own a HiPoint you see) $50-$100 max.
    3. Must be simple and fit HP, not looking for a 3 part solution, self-smithing, etc. K.I.S.S.

    Guesses:
    A. Probably need scope magnification since eyes struggle with small targets at 50 yards?
    B. Or will a red dot help overcome sighting problems at distance?
    C. I don't think a laser works well for this application, right?
    D. Are there other options like scout/pistol sights, red-dots with magnification, etc.?

    P.S. Would the HP scope option solve this problem, and is it reliable/durable? It is a BSA 4×32 Compact Scope S4x32WR

    HELP!
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  2. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,291
    10,322
    NE Utah
    I’d say dump the irons, get a 4X scope, and enjoy it. Not sure I’d get the cheap BSA compact model, I have some better scopes that didn’t break the bank.

    The red dot could work with the irons still there, but you’ll have a learning curve. However, if you can see the target, the red dot can put you on it.
     

  3. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Is this just a range toy or are you planning on "doing something" with it? If it's a range toy only and you really want to stretch past 50 yards, then Ajole is right, get glass. If you want to use it for "home defense," then don't worry about anything out past 25 yards and put a durable red dot on it which doesn't eat batteries. If you want to hunt with it then you might want to look hard at what sort of optics and define your hunting. Some works better with a red dot. My hog hunting friends tell me that a red dot works better for hog because it's closer range (for them) and after the first shot breaks they need to put down as many oinkers as they can as fast as they can, a function where the red dot shines. If you want to shoot coyote then maybe a scope which gathers a LOT of light (nocturnal bustards); my friends that hunt them say you get one shot at one 'yote and then they're gone for an hour.

    As for your groups opening up at 50 yards, that might not be your eyesight. The shape and length of a 9mm bullet is less aerodynamic and stable than bullets for "real" rifle cartridges. They're just plain less accurate than a bullet with a pointed profile and a boat-tail base. High quality (read "really expensive") ammunition can make more of an impact in longer-ranged accuracy for 9mm than for "real" rifle cartridges.

    Red Dot's have a nice feature that a lot of people don't really understand until they start using them. Unlike iron sights or scopes, you have a target focus. Your vision should focus on the target. If you try to focus on the dot, and leave the target blurry, the dot gets blurry too and it all goes down hill. If you're wearing corrective vision lenses, then you can wear your glasses and use your distances lenses to keep the target in focus and the dot will appear, also in focus, on top of the POI. Both eyes open, just like normal "seeing."

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  4. missiledefender

    missiledefender Supporting Member

    I like scopes/optics that have no batteries but a fiber optic that illuminates the reticles/dot.
     
  5. HPlover

    HPlover Member

    18
    16
    Texas
    Thanks for the quick reply! I'd love to hear about some other 3x or 4x scopes under $100 that are proven on 995ts.
     
  6. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

    8,152
    1,700
    Florida
    The thing about 3x or 4x scopes under $100 is the risk of getting something that will be huge on the rifle. Something compact enough for your carbine will run more than that. If you can get glasses as @lklawson suggested, a red dot will probably be a better option because you can definitely get quality ones for less than $100. I have a Bushnell TRS-32 that's been on my AR for a few years, now, and I got it from Palmetto State Armory for $35 or so when it was available for sale during a weekend sale.

    It has held zero just fine and is not a battery eater. My wife and I used it to shoot clay pigeons taped to a target at 100 yards with no problem.
     
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  7. HPlover

    HPlover Member

    18
    16
    Texas
    Kirk,

    Thanks for the detailed reply!

    My post was a bit unclear. This is primarily a range/truck/SHTF gun where iron sights are fine and preferred. However, a friend would like occasional (quarterly?) help shooting coyotes and maybe other stuff, so I'd like an optic for that specific application. Most shots on his land will be 25-100 yards, possibly at dusk or dawn, not planning on night hunting.

    I appreciate the explanation of red dots, I haven't used one and it reads as if it may be a viable solution. Does distance matter (100yds) for a RD? Even a 1x RD with no magnification will help my aim/POI at distance? I do not wear corrective lenses, but at 50-100 yards I struggle seeing fine detail, like where is the eye on a headshot or the exact bullseye on a target if it is small or dull color. But I can see center mass at 50-100 and probably hit a lung/shoulder shot if sighted in properly, low wind, stable position, etc. But I'd like an optic to make it more likely, easier, more humane, more viable situations, etc.

    I read in another thread that the Bushnell TRS25 will cowitness with 995 iron sights which is more appealing to me than a scope with no irons. But if a scope will work better for this, that is fine too.

    My buddy will buy whatever ammo I need to help him, so I will deal with that part later. The cartridge has its limitations, but so do my eyes, just trying to rectify what I can. Quick look at some ballistics seems to indicate there are decent commercial options of +P that should shoot flatter and stay supersonic (or maybe heavy subsonic will work better). Will test once I have my optic setup.

     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    CowboyBob likes this.
  8. Something like a Firefield Barrage 1.5 x 5 would be suitable for a 995. I've got one on an AR15, that I got that was optics ready (no sights) and I just wanted something to put on it. It's held up fine on an AR but the gun has capability past the range the scope is good. Something like it would be ideal for a 995. It would look pretty cool too. Mine was on sale for $79.99.



    20190808_181301.jpg


    20190808_181248.jpg


    20190808_200332.jpg
     
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  9. relics

    relics Member

    13
    5
    I would use the crimson trace hi point uses.Its perfect with
    The iron sights and can be sighted right in with them.Has green or red dot.Honestly realistically a shot at 50 or 60 yards would be max for a clean kill.Its small really nice and pops right on that rail.I can hit a base ball sized bulls eye on a target At 50 to 60 yards
     
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  10. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,291
    10,322
    NE Utah
    HP uses a Crimson Trace red dot?
    Is that a new thing?

    Centerpoint does a 1-4x20 for about $60. I know, they’re Daisy...but they’re good scopes in my experience.

    There are better scopes than the compact models, is what I’m saying. Even BSA has them.
     
  11. relics

    relics Member

    13
    5
    model 995CT That is Crimson Trace with select able Green or Red dot

    Real nice with iron sights.I have that one with dual clip option also
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
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  12. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Like any other type of sight, a Red Dot will have only one distance where POI is POA. If you sight it in for 100 yards, it will be some high at closer ranges and drop lower at greater distances. 9mm Luger will be much more pronounced at shorter ranges than a "real" rifle caliber. So, sight it in at what distance you think makes the most sense for your application and then shoot it enough to learn what the hold under for closer ranges are and the hold over for greater distances are.

    Personally, I find Red Dot's to be vastly more intuitive than iron sights or a magnifying scope.l

    I kinda want to try out an illuminated Low Power Variable Optic (LPVO) because is tries to combine the best of both a scope and a red dot, but, frankly, they tend to be expensive and I'm far too cheap to invest in one yet.

    Don't worry about co-witnessing. If you can see and align your iron sights when looking through the through the optic window then that's all you need.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  13. Shopfox

    Shopfox Member

    213
    188
    I use a Simmons 8-point 3-9x40. Cheap, holds zero, hunt with 3x and target shoot with 9x.
     
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  14. Visper

    Visper AK = Automatic Killer!?! Supporting Member

    Firefields are decent. They even have a 1-6x AR optic FFP at an OK price (or at least use to). Not a combat optic but will handle a HP carbine no problem, have one on mine.

    I have one of their Red Dots on one of my AR22's also.

    Now I also just purchased a Tacticon Red dot and 3x magnifier for another AR. I gave my Dad my 3-9x Bushnell I had on that one so needed a replacement and after reading online I decided to see what they had. Decent prices, GREAT customer service and Vet owned.

    Also there is this:

    Tacticon1.jpg
     
  15. Dan Ross

    Dan Ross Member

    1
    1
    I just got the 10mm carbine. I must say this thing grows on you. It seems very-very durable thus removing the sights for a $100 scope seems potentially foolish? A co-witnessed red dot may be the ticket?
     
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  16. 556

    556 Member

    379
    32
    Here are a few options

    https://www.mountsplus.com/aimsports-tactical-series-4x32-compact-scope-with-mil-dot-reticle.html

    https://www.mountsplus.com/ncstar-compact-scope-3-9x42-red-illumination.html
     
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  17. HPlover

    HPlover Member

    18
    16
    Texas
    Thanks, what is the model of the Crimson Trace Red Dot? HP does not seem to sell it under accessories, nor list the CT model in carbine package

     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  18. HPlover

    HPlover Member

    18
    16
    Texas
    Thanks for confirming Firefield as decent.

    Would love to read your review of the Tacticon, what model? I'd like to support them, but have heard some horror stories of not working, falling apart, etc.

    How did the Bushnell 3-9x work for you?
     
  19. Visper

    Visper AK = Automatic Killer!?! Supporting Member

    I have 2 Firefields - about 4-5 years old each. Never one problem.

    The Bushnell is a really good sight. My dad can use it more than me right now though. I mostly shoot out in my "backyard" have a small range set up @ 25 yds and enough room to stretch it to 50 but that's it, I can get away with a red dot.

    bushnell 1.JPG bushnell 2.JPG

    My dad's eyes aren't the best anymore so he needed it. I gave him a 3-9 ncstar scope for his HP995 and it helped a few years back. He recently got his FIRST AR and iron sights... ugh forget it lol.

    So far the tacticon has been fine. Not the best dot in the world, like 4 moa dot. but it is crisp, glass is OK and the 3x magnifier works well with it. So far after about 150 rds its held zero and no wiggles or anything. Like I said I KNOW its no where near top of the line, I kinda blew my load on Eotech 512 about 3 weeks ago on my latest AR build, so scope money was tight. I figured what the hell I try them out and give them a shot, I have it on one of the first AR's I ever got (a Palmetto) if it does go to crap then only out like $110.

    I might just get another Sig Romeo 5 or PA red dot if the tacticon does take a crap.
     
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  20. HPlover

    HPlover Member

    18
    16
    Texas
    Which Tacticon RD do you have paired with the magnifier V3, V2 or V1? I may try just the RD, with the magnifier as a backup addition if I need more help.

    With 9mm limiting me to 75-100 yards (I guess), I'm not sure if I need magnification or if a RD with irons is enough.

    Thanks!

     
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