What would do

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by joebob88, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. joebob88

    joebob88 Guest

    If bugout time came and by car-boat or whatever your means you have would you stoot anyone that tried to stop you. Would you do it.
     
  2. Depends. If you mean stop as in "I'm taking your car, get out", they're getting shot. If it's the police/military telling me to stay in place, I'd probably listen. Be more specific and I can give a better answer.
     

  3. If they are trying to stop me to steal my stuff, no question about it. If it's the Police or the National Guard telling me it's not safe to leave, different story.
     
  4. I agree with the above posted by CG-49 and 4095fanatic. If you try to take my stuff, you're getting it no questions.


    However, this question can be construed several ways. Please clarify it some and we can give you better replies.
     
  5. joebob88

    joebob88 Guest

    Post

    I live about a hour and a half from where I was raised and know a vast area where I could hunt and hide out but If I were met at the state line by police or nationad guard and was asked to turn over my weapons I wouldn't know what to do. I can travel by river and make it to this place but I'm sure they will cover that also.
     
  6. Tough times call for tough decisions. If it were looters looking to take my family supplies/vehicle and we needed those items to survive then its a no brainer. Under normal conditions personal property is not worth using deadly force over, and in most places its not authorized unless the theif presents a threat to life and limb while in the process of stealing your property. Under survival conditions your family may starve to death if all your food is stolen, may die of dehydration if all your water and water purification supplies are stolen, and could perish along the road side if left to travel on foot with an approaching environmental/natural disaster. That my friends is what I consider a threat to life and limb during the process of property theft.
     
  7. joebob,

    You definitely need to check your state laws and see if OK is one of the states that passed the "Emergency Powers Act" which forbids law enforcement and National Guard from confiscating legally owned firearms from private citizens in time of crisis. Often called the "Katrina Bill" because of what happened in New Orleans.

    I believe Michigan was the first state to pass this law and many states including Louisana and Mississippi have followed suit.

    You also need to check you're neighboring states if you live that close to the state line because the laws vary state to state. If you are trying to enter a state that doesn't have the EPA, then they may want to take your stuff and at that point, I would turn around and go the other way.

    Check the NRA website and also www.gunlaws.com and you can obtain the information you're looking for. The NRA site constantly updates what laws are passing in different states and the biggest thing they are watching right now is the Washington DC gun ban which is awaiting a ruling from the US Supreme Court. Check it out.
     
  8. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    The funny thing is that many states that are either passing or thinking about passing a "Katrina Bill" of their own aren't even remotely concerned with citizen's rights regarding firearms. The biggest concern on the state level is the "automatic procurement" of resources such as fuel and medical supplies. Without this bill, the National Guard can actively go up to a Red Cross unit, Hospital or even a private citizen, literally steal their trucks, medical supplies and fuel and not give any reason, simply stating that it's a military need. Happened alot during Katrina, and this had alot of private groups and organizations scared.
     
  9. Wow, tough question. I'm going to protect my life/family from looters.....but....the other side of that question......I dunno.
     
  10. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    if the situation is bad enough for you to leave town chances are everyone else is doing the same thing.. sad to say but at that point you're probably better off at home unless it's something like nuke is headed to your neighborhood.

    traffic will be at a standstill and the air ports will be either grounded or packed.

    where i live there are'nt really any water ways or docks or anything to make an escape in.

    the way i understand your question is would i shoot someone to take their boat or plane and escape? no..

    would i shoot someone trying to force me to stay? absolutely they'ed get a warning to get the hell out of my way the next thing they hear would be bang.

    as for the national guard or other rescue teams..

    if i have to turn over my weapon they can keep their help i'll take my chances on my own.
     
  11. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    The question is that if the case does arise, are you going to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

    What I mean by this is that if you are confronted with a situation, it really depends on what the particulars are. If it's a looter wanting the PS3 when you're concentrating on getting your family and friends to a safe point to merely survive, I say "Knock yourself out buddy! Good luck trying to eat/float on/burning that PS3 when you need to." But, if they're going for supplies... again, I don't know. My first response is to help as many people as possible, but some men and women go beyond reason fast when they lack the education to understand the situation they are in fully.

    The minute we start distrusting our fellow man to the point we are willing to shoot on site "Just in case", we have contributed in a small fraction to the degradation of the society we are worried about losing in the first place. In the case of confrontation, in a situation such as a natural/ecological disaster, the first key is communication, then avoidance, and then defence. Resistance with deadly force should ALWAYS be a last resort no matter what the situation. Suffering comes from ignorance, and those who are not prepared (Such as in Katrina) will resort to whatever they have at hand and whatever they understand in order to gain what they need to survive. If you can aide them in getting what they need and can ASSURE them it can be achieved, then you have neutralized a threat and have turned that "threat" into an ally. Many in the region didn't know that there were Red Cross units as well as other avenues of escape from the city, but many who didn't educate themselves on what was going on and what was approaching simply handed over their arms to the National Guard and voluntarily locked themselves into the hell hole that was the Athletics Arena that made international news.

    If you can help educate your fellow man, it's a duty that needs to be adhered to. When that chance cannot be given or when the other party does NOT want to be educated, that doesn't mean that we must resort to arms. The key then is to reduce or eliminate interaction with such groups.

    It does depend on the situation.
     
  12. mattk

    mattk Guest

    wow. that was a good post neothespian. life is precious. if i were forced to kill other human beings it would haunt me for a long time. i think that some people go crazy real quick when it all falls down. avoidance is my philosophy.
     
  13. joebob88

    joebob88 Guest

    Post

    I would NEVER want to harm anyone. I just want to be able to make it to this place where game and water are abundant without losing any of my survival gear. Including my guns. I live 4 miles from the Red River and can put my little boat in and be on my way in a short time. I use to live at a fish camp about 50 miles down river. A creek that feeds that river leads all the way to where I grew up hunting and fishing.
     
  14. Neo,

    Good point, but most of the people that had a decent head on their shoulders got out of New Orleans. Most of the ones that stayed behind were poor people that didn't have the means to get out and therefore were at the mercy of the looters and the thugs. Now, poor people, that live check to check don't have the fore thought to plan for a disaster like this, much less be able to afford it. They are the "starving masses" you may have to defend yourself from. I'm not saying I'd shoot the first person that showed up at my door, but I would be very suspicious given my level of preparedness. You never know which "neighbors" are watching you and what you are doing. They might go so far as to not prepare at all knowing they have you only a couple of doors away. Am I paranoid?? No, I'm realistic. At some point the human "animal" in all of us will come out and that will depend on the length and the severity of the crisis. Let's face it, man is, by far, the most dangerous animal on the planet. There are cases of family members turning on one another in dire circumstances. So, how much trust are you willing to give a complete stranger who doesn't give a crap about you in the first place. I'm going to do my best to survive and keep those close to me safe. Whatever it takes!!