which caliber?

Discussion in 'General Hi-Point Discussion' started by birdmove, Feb 20, 2015.

  1. Until a few days ago I was not aware of Hi-Point firearms at all. I had admired the, long ago dropped, Marlin Camp Carbines. I'm a 61 year old shooter, that, by the time I was 14, was handloading (under my dad's strict supervision) ammuntion in .243 Winchester, and was able to take my rifle and ammo to the range and shoot dime sized groups. The gun was a Tradewinds/Husquevarna bolt action. Bought my first handgun at 21, and it was a Dan Wesson .357 magnum revolver, that I wore out testing heavy loads when I was competing in IHMSA 200 meter handgun competition, and NRA Hunter Pistol, and some bowling pin matches. I had to use that old Dan Wesson on my 22nd birthday (Nov 1st, 1975) when a looney decided it was a good idea to smash his way into my rental house about 10:30 pm. And, no, I didn't have to shoot him, or even fire the gun. Just getting the drop on him and aiming it at his ugly face and holdiong him for the police was enough.

    Fast forward a bunch of years, and here's me with my crappy 61 year old eyesight. I had sold most of my firearms when we moved to the big island of Hawaii in 2011. Haven't shot my smokeless firearms since. But I have air rifles and pistols I keep myself active in shooting those.

    Now, I hear about the Hi-Point carbines, and got an interest in them. I do have a Colt .45acp already. I sold off any reloading dies in calibers I don't have any more, so do not have 9mm dies. I'm considering buying one of these carbines, in either 9mm or .45acp. I've been watching youtube videos, and, an I wrong in thinking the 9mm may have a bit of an edge in accuracy?

    Not that that is a major issue. I view these carbines as short range (for a rifle) plinkers, and short range self defense SHTF guns. I've handloaded a ton of .357 magnum, .38 special, 32-20 (for a friend), 30-30 (for a 10" TC Contender that was my 200 meter IHMSA tack driver), some .45acp, and a small amount of 9mm. The 9mm would certainly be cheaper to shoot too.

    Maybe a few of you may own both carbines in 9mm and .45acp., and can comment on comparing them. I'll be reading a lot of threads here too in the meantime.
     
  2. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    I have all the models.

    I think the 9mm is more accurate for most, just because of the commercial ammo. I'm sure you know what I mean, a variation of 20 fps is only 1.5% to 2% on a 9 mm, while that same 20 fps is closer to 3-4% on a .45 ACP.

    Also, the higher velocity helps overcome range issues, there is less drop in the typical 9mm load, meaning holdover or under isn't as critical.

    A hand loader could overcome all of that, of course.;)
     

  3. Thanks for the comment! Yes, I roll my own. Though, I would want factory ammo in any semi auto rifle or pistol , if, heaven forbid, I had to use it in self defense. I also have an old Charter Arms Bulldog Pug in .44 special. I'd use handloads for any purpose in that gun. My revolver handloads have been 100% reliable. Handloading for semi autos can be a lot more touchy.
     
  4. colthrash

    colthrash Member

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    I have the c9 9mm, and the jhp 45acp (pistols). both are good shooters. I chose the 45 carbine over the 9mm because of magazine compatibility. the idea of the same ammo and the same magazines is very appealing to me...
     
  5. Probably a dum question, but, I have a Colt Model 1911A1. I don't suppose that Colt magazines would work in the .45acp carbine? That would be extra nice!
     
  6. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    Not as dumb as you think. Search for "thingmiester mag catch" (or something of the sort). It's a replacement magazine catch for the 4595 that allows you to use unmodified 1911 mags.
     
  7. Outlaw

    Outlaw Supporting Member

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    Depending on how many different calibers you own other than the .45, if that is your favorite round, I would stick with it and get the .45 carbine. That way you could carry two weapons and one caliber. I used to play that many caliber game for years. Finally I narrowed it down to 2 pistol calibers, .38 and .40, and 3 rifle calibers, .22, .308 and 30.06. The reason it's even that many is because the wife only shoots .38 and of course the different type firearms we own. The .22's are for plinking and as for the rest...well, you guessed it. :rolleyes:
    P.S. As for age and bad eyes, I'm 65 and know what you mean. :( Now that I think about it, are 5 calibers too many? :confused:
     
  8. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    Here is a nice video that shows how to convert an old 1911 magazine to work in your 45 JHP or 4595 carbine. I think it was either Bull or UnderGround who provided the link, originally.

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9VXNvcSO9A[/ame]

    Here is one that goes over installing the mod that Brian--uh, I mean cicpup mentioned in his post.

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_jz3nCzINY[/ame]
     
  9. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    Don't get my avatar?
     
  10. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    I get the Joey trigger, but I thought that were also a Family Guy fan.
     
  11. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    It was just the most convenient keychain at the time.
     
  12. shepherd321

    shepherd321 Supporting Member

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    I didn't really look very hard, but I thought that the Marlin camp carbines barrel slowed 45 acp bullets down compared to a pistol barrel. Do you get higher velocities out of the Hipoint 45 carbine vs the pistol?
     
  13. Outlaw

    Outlaw Supporting Member

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    Logic says the more powder burn, the more velocity. The longer the barrel, the longer the powder burn. But then logic ain't always logical :confused:
     
  14. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    If the powder were to stop burning before the bullet left the barrel, it would slow the bullet. This would depend on the qualities of the different loads.
     
  15. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    If the powder stops burning the volume of gas is still expanding.
     
  16. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    Well, the gas volume keeps expanding for some period of time after the powder stops burning--until it equals the external air pressure. If the powder burn time and pressure generated cause the gas to expand only enough that the pressure in the barrel equals the atmospheric pressure before the bullet leaves the barrel, nothing will be pushing the bullet, and friction from the bore will slow the bullet.

    That's why the nature of the load has an effect on whether or not the longer barrel will facilitate an increase or decrease in velocity.
     
  17. shepherd321

    shepherd321 Supporting Member

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    Have any of the 45acp carbine owners tested their velocity?
     
  18. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    I haven't tested the velocity in my own carbine, but I have to say that when I compare the amount of hold over for a 100-yard shot between my carbine and either my 1911 or G21, the carbine requires much less hold over. That indicates to me that the carbine-length barrel is imparting a higher velocity to the 230-grain FMJ than the shorter barrels of the 1911 or G21 do.

    It really would take a chronograph to see what is happening with it, for sure, and I don't have one of those.
     
  19. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCV-daOu3Q4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCV-daOu3Q4[/ame]

    http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/thermo_4.htm

    First Law of Thermodynamics (VW, S & B: 2.6)

    There exists for every system a property called energy. E = internal energy (arising from molecular motion - primarily a function of temperature) + kinetic energy + potential energy + chemical energy.

    Defines a useful property called "energy".

    The two new terms in the equation (compared to what you have seen in physics and dynamics, for example) are the internal energy and the chemical energy. For most situtations in this class, we will neglect the chemical energy.

    Let’s focus on the internal energy, u. It is associated with the random or disorganized motion of the particles.
     
  20. OK I know matches are not gun powder, but are they?

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8gYPdNAp9Q0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8gYPdNAp9Q0[/ame]

    [​IMG]

    This image gives a look into how things burn. It is actually the gasses that burn, heat releases the gasses, it is called gasification. Same process happens with gunpowder, ignition creates heat, heat creates pressure of burning gasses. This process continues as long as the heat remains, heat equals energy/power. The same principle in a steam engine, or even a car engine.

    Once the energy/heat/pressure starts to drop the bullet continues down the barrel by momentum and latent heat if the gasses have stopped burning. If they cool to the point that more energy is used by the friction of the bullet compared to the remaining heat the bullet will lose velocity. Or in the case of squib loads stop in the barrel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015