Why Hi Point is better than Smith & Wesson

Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by lklawson, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Last year I bought a NIB Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport from a LGS. It's been accurate and reliable, however, it has a few small differences from the standard AR15. Notably, the Sport lacks the Forward Assist and the Dust Cover (as well as having an "Integrated Trigger Guard"). I've never needed the Forward Assist and I keep it clean and don't shoot thousands of rounds before cleaning, nor does it get exposed to lots of dust and detritus so lacking the Dust Cover has never been an issue either. I've never "missed" having either. Nevertheless, I can't shake the feeling that my S&W AR is somehow less of an AR.

    Trolling the S&W website, I noticed that between my purchase and now, S&W has upgraded to the M&P15 Sport II. It's the same thing as the Sport but now includes a Forward Assist and Dust Cover.

    I contacted S&W and asked if they offer a "Factory Upgrade" service, which I would pay for of course, for converting the earlier Sport to the Sport II?

    Dear Customer,

    We unfortunately do not offer any type of upgrade. We apologize for the inconvenience.

    Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.

    Now, if you'll recall, when Hi Point changed from the 995 "Classic" to the 995TS, they offered (still do) a service to upgrade the older monkey-gun stock to the new TS stock. Yes, you have to pay for the part and for the service, but they offer it.

    S&W doesn't.

    Oh well... :(

    Peace favor your sword,
  2. FirearmFanatic

    FirearmFanatic "The Enabler!"

    Hi Point customer service is definitely better than S&W!
    Hats off to MOM!

  3. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    So HP is better they let you pay them for parts and labor to do a simple stock swap?

    S&W has an upgrade service too... its called buy the upgraded version from your LGS if you want it.

    You do realize there is a difference between a stock upgrade and a full serialized receiver change out right?

    You are comparing apples and oranges. ;)
  4. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

    Hi Point service is second to none!

    As far as your M&P Sport is no less of an AR than any other. It's the same platform, just not milspec. All of my AR ( I prefer MSR, or Modern Sporting Rifle) builds have been slick sides. I just prefer them. FWIW , I do not recall ever having to use the forward assist when I carried one for Uncle Sam.

    If I try to chamber a round and it dosent, I'm not going to force it regardless of rifle type, I want it out of there! And, your M&P has a forward assist anyway, the scallop in the side of the BCG is designed for just that, you use your finger.

    I also want to add that there is nothing wrong with milspec or stanag, matter of fact there is lots of good with it in a TEOTWAWKI situation, it standardizes. It's just not that important to me.

    I also want to add, I like my Hi Point and SKS much better than my MSR's!
  5. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

    The upper receiver is what houses the FA and dust cover. It's not serialized.
  6. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I don't need the whole rifle, just the receiver. :)

    If I was having problems with the rifle, I'd send it in to them under warranty. If the problem turned out to be the receiver, they'd replace the receiver with a new unserialized one and reserialize it to the same. I think there's a chance that, if that happened, they'd simply replace the old Sport receiver with the new Sport II receiver.

    It's not as if this is unprecedented.

    That's what Kel Tec would do if I sent in my Gen I P32 and it needed a frame/slide replaced. They don't make the Gen 1 P32 anymore. If it needed a major parts replacement, they'd scrap the Gen 1 and send me a Gen 2 with the old SN.

    Peace favor your sword,
  7. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah

  8. rmuniz9336

    rmuniz9336 Member

    I own both the Hi-Point 40 and 40 S&W. Truthfully, the Hi-Point seems it can take more abuse and is solid. The only advantage the S&W has is the magazine holds more rounds. Other than that, the Hi_Point shoots just as well (maybe even a little better since it's heavier).
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I wasn't so much referring to a comparison of the pistols each offer as comparing the services offered by the factory. In this particular case I was comparing post-purchase factory service options for their rifles. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
  10. All you need is a new upper with the assist installed as well as a dust cover. At some point in time S&W might offer the upper, once they meet production schedule of new guns.
  11. They have to be, it is one of the major reasons people buy HP.
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I know that a lot of people who bought the Sport have purchased an after-market Upper Receiver and changed it out themselves. I considered the possibility of doing this when I purchased it. I just ran a search and it looks like about the least expensive I can go and still have reasonable quality starts at $100 and rises from there. I'm not experienced at building AR's. I suppose I could trawl YouTube for how-to's and read a crap ton. I've got a friend who's build a few and a local acquaintance who just got his AR armorer's last year so I guess I do have some resources for advice. But, still, this is one of those DIY things that I'd be very thoughtful about before jumping in with both feet. I don't have a barrel wrench (obviously) and I'm not sure about which punches or whatever else (thought I've probably got those).

    However, I was hoping that I could have the S&W factory do it using an S&W Sport II upper, particularly because they've phased out the Sport series and replaced it with the Sport II. Like I said, other companies do/have-done similar things. Just not, apparently S&W.

    Which is why Hi Point is superior. :D

    Peace favor your sword,
  13. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    But wouldn't the upgrades involve the non-serialized upper only? Forward assist and dust cover both?
  14. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    They would never do it.
  15. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

    I Forgive You!!! :p (S&W is my #1 Brand)

    Anyway, I see your (hi)-POINT and I agree, the CS is better from MOM!

  16. lsi1

    lsi1 Member

    now I gotta go cuddle my sport and tell it that its still a real rifle no matter what all the other ARs tell it.
  17. I heard Sports are girls guns.
  18. A bit of a click bait title Kirk?
    I think gun owners are going a little nuts with expectations. Would you call Chevy after they started using ABS and ask if they would put it on for you?
    It's and AR if you want something upgraded you do it yourself, isn't that the point of the modular rifle?
    And Finally S&W has wonderful service full warranty on anything broken for the life to the original owner. They even pay the shipping, what!? They don't tell you to just lie to FedEx. Crazy I know.
    Now if your gun was actually broken different story. Or call the S&W performance center. I bet they would happily take your money if you are inclined to pay.

    The warranty department is not for upgraded of working equipment.
  19. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Yes. But not for free. I would expect to be able to go in and pay the Chevy service shop to do it. Just as, in this case, I had a hope that a Smith & Wesson service shop would do it for a fee.

    It's funny that you use this example. My cousin just got a job as some. sort of mgr at a service shop.

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    I would take the dust cover over a FA anyday. Just buy a sporter II as your daughter is getting older and needing her own AR15. ;)