Why no condition 1? (Corrected for newbinitis)

Discussion in 'CCW & Open Carry' started by Corelogik, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. Corelogik

    Corelogik Member

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    Ok so the newb questions continue,

    I am aware that Hi-Point does recommend and actually discourages the practice of Condition 3 carry, 1 in chamber safety on, but I would like to know what the specific reason for this is.

    Is it a blanket prohibition or just for extended carry? If I am at the shooting range, read sticks miles from anywhere, and the pistol is riding in a holster and not getting bumped, dropped or otherwise abused, does the same still apply?

    What is it about the design that makes condition 3 not a good idea?

    Thanks for the info.

    "WARNING: Newbie learning!"
     
  2. This is only my opinion, but with a mag in the pistol and an empty chamber, you can use the pistol as a club, it can be dropped from an airplane, and it is not going to shoot because there is no round in the chamber.

    If you have a round in the chamber, and the safety on, that means that the firing pin is cocked back and only two things have to happen for the weapon to fire. The safety has to move to the off position, and the trigger has to be pulled whether on purpose or accidentally.

    I do not know if you remember the shotgun hunter that got shot by his own shotgun accidentally by his dog.

    He sit the shotgun in the bed of his pickup pointing towards himself, and the dog dancing around in the back of the pickup knocked the safety off and hit the trigger, shooting and killing him.

    If he had not had a shell in the tube, he would be alive today.

    Stuff happens, and when it comes to firearms, the results can be permanent.
     

  3. I carry my JHP 45 cocked and locked all the time. I don't think twice about it. Never had a problem yet. If you don't have one in the chamber when it comes time to need it, you may never have the chance to chamber a round before you end up cold and dead.
     
  4. 1motion

    1motion Guest

    my opinion is that hi point is just covering their arse like every company in this sue happy nation has too. if they say not to do it and you do and something happens then its not their fault.

    one of my friends family members also set his shotgun down to take a wizz and a dog stepped on it just right firing a round.... he didnt die but his leg will never be the same.

    my .45 stays cocked and locked in the house 24/7 and is loaded while on me out shooting or roaming around the woods... all guns ive carried have been that way.

    its all about saftey and habits for me
     
  5. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    well the gun has no firing pin block.. which means if for some reason the firing pin loses it's catch it will fire the gun even without the trigger being pulled.

    personally it does make me a bit nervious keeping a gun without a FP block chambered (usually).. however if you did'nt have anything eles and you can't afford anything else, and you needed a SD/HD weapon.. then i would leave it chambered.

    i did some mild drop tests followed by some violent shaking with the striker charged (not loaded of course)

    it did'nt go "click" so i think it would actually be fine for every day jarations of carry, it does have some safes specifics if it's dropped, the counter weight for example which you can see in the mag well as well as hear when jaring the gun.

    if you wish to test the gun to see if you're comfortable, you can carry the gun unloaded for a few days.. if it is still charged after a few days you can probably be assured it wont go off..

    personally i like hammer fired guns best..

    you can always practice the Israeli draw, named after the Israeli army, who carry their guns unchambered..

    it is a little slower however you can get pretty quick at it if you practice.

    this is where you rack the slide and chamber a round as you bring the gun up.
     
  6. Corelogik

    Corelogik Member

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    See, this is what I was wondering. If there was a mechanical reason for not carrying chambered. No firing pin block on a striker fired weapon, makes me kinda nervous too.

    Maybe I will think about it for a few days. The Mossy does HD duty so no worry there. I do go camping occasionally though and most of my shooting is in the "sticks" and so wouldn't mind having one loaded in the tent for emergencies, maybe on the hip in a holster.

    I don't plan on doing any combat maneuvers, but the occasional bump here and there is possible.
     
  7. Scriz

    Scriz Guest

    Weapons conditions listed below; Whats asked isn't condition 3.

    Condition 1: Round chambered, magazine inserted, slide forward, safety on.
    Condition 2: Does not apply
    Condition 3: Chamber empty, magazine inserted, slide forward, safety on.
    Condition 4: Chamber empty, no magazine inserted, slide forward, safety on.

    No offense to you, just want you to know the proper conditions. :p
     
  8. I carried my C9 in the glove box of my Jeep Wrangle for over a year and never once had a problem. Everyone knows how rough a Wrangler rides, even on paved roads, so it was constantly bouncing around inside the plastic glove box. For a long time I carried the gun in Condition 3 (chamber empty, mag inserted, slide forward and safety on) but at times I would change to Condition 1 (round chambered, mag inserted, slide forward, safety on) just because I would be going thru an area that was not so nice. When I conceal carry a pistol it is always in Condition 1, because if I need a gun chances are I will not have time to chamber a round before the BG is right on top of me.

    Almost every firearm instruction booklet I have ever read advises against carrying with one in the chamber. This is more a legal CYA thing than any problems with the firearm itself. Unlike some striker fired guns the C9 striker is held back in the ready to fire position anytime you chamber a round or rack the slide back, even with all the mechanical safeties on the gun there's always that 1 in a million chance it could accidentally be fired without pulling the trigger. Same can be said about other striker fired guns that keep the striker in the ready to fire position after the slide is racked and a round is chambered.
     
  9. I see no reason to keep the safety on with a weapon that has a loaded mag but nothing in the tube.

    Its just another step to go through to make the weapon ready to fire.
    Not too often does a slide get pulled back by accident without the person noticing.
     
  10. I concur with waltham41 on that. my prefered condition for SD/HD gun is

    chamber empty, mag inserted, slide forward, safety off

    this way, like in the middle of the night, i know i only have to do 1 very conscious thing before making the weapon ready to fire. just pull the slide. i feel the gun is safer without a round in the chamber than with one in and the safety ON.
    i also think just leaving the safety out of the equasion alltogether simplifies matters when it comes to a freaky situation.
     
  11. Corelogik

    Corelogik Member

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    Your right, my bad. It's been a while since I have owned a pistol with a manual safety. Honestly, I am used to Glocks and Rugers (with only a de-cocker).

    Thanks for the correction. :oops:
     
  12. I have several hand guns that I conceal carry, different times of course, so here's my routine...

    1: Check mag to make sure it's loaded and loaded with SD ammo and not range ammo.

    2: Chamber a round, if not already chambered.

    3: Place the safety on, if it has a manual safety.

    4: Place gun in holster, making sure it is secure in the holster.

    5: Disengage the manual safety (if it has a manual safety), AFTER I holster the weapon.

    My carry guns are either striker fired DA, traditional DA/SA with exposed hammer or DAO with bobbed hammer. I do not carry my C9 for CC because I have other guns that are either small, lighter or narrower and they work better for me when it comes to concealment.

    rimfirehunter
     
  13. I think the whole round chambered think just kinda scares some people.
     
  14. 1motion

    1motion Guest

    i dont know about the non chambered saftey off carry.... sure it eliminates a step but i would only do that if i carried that way 100% of the time. most accidental shootings accure with a loaded gun that someone thought was clear... when raising the gun to shoot i sweep the saftey off like most people do, so if i was used to carrying with the safety off and nothing in the chamber but for some reason had one chambered this time around and had to use it what would happen.... would i leave the safety off on accident or would i have it on and forget to drop it when i needed to shoot and wonder why the trigger isnt moving...

    gun safety is all about habits.... do things the right way everytime in a safe manner no matter how long you have been around firearms and it should keep you out of trouble.

    my advice is not to switch up your carry condition because when its time to use it and panic sets in you may forget what condition your gun is in.

    its locked and loaded 24/7 with me, always been that way with every gun ive carried anywhere for any reason... just be safe and concious of the fact you have a loaded gun on you and dont go playing football or jogging and activities that are just asking to test the guns safety
     
  15. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    actually im not aware of any striker fired guns that do not stay in at least a semi charged state, glock for example it is kept partially charged, 1/3rd i think.. and then the rest is by trigger pull.

    they call the glock a DAO but personally i see it as SA.

    this is one of the pit falls of a striker design there is no double tap on a hard primor or a weak strike. if it fails to go bang you have to rack the slide you can't just pull the trigger again like on a real DAO or a DA/SA.

    good call on the conditions, i did'nt even notice that i just assumed they ment chambered.

    might also add condition 0, cocked, mag loaded, and safeties off.
     
  16. Here is food for thought, no one has ever been shot by a weapon, whether by accident or on purpose, unless it had a bullet in the barrel.

    Not something to be scared of, but definitely something to keep in the back of your mind.
     
  17. Corelogik

    Corelogik Member

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    I have no fear of "cocked & locked". When I worked in armed security I carried my Glock 19 or 23 fully charged at all times. Now I carry my KT P3AT fully loaded. (It has a firing pin block)

    I was simply wondering if there was some sort of mechanical or safety reason for this particular pistol to not be carried that way.

    Alas the last 2 pistols I carried had firing pin safeties to prevent the pin from moving unless the trigger was pulled. So it is a model and action style I am used to.
     
  18. Strangerous

    Strangerous Member

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    I carry mine in condition 1, MINUS the safety!

    My 1st shot is DA, so just being nervous/scared/whatever isn't going to mess me up so bad that i AD or anything. All 7 consecutive shots thereafter are SA.

    If you have a split second to unholster, take safety off, rack, aim, and pull trigger; You're dead before you can rack that slide.
     
  19. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    are you talking about hi-point pistols? they are single action, or are you talking about a different gun you carry?
     
  20. Strangerous

    Strangerous Member

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    Ahhhh, I'm sorry, i carry a Firestorm .380