Would you buy a modern pistol in 7.62x25?

Discussion in 'Caliber Zone' started by AllOutOfAmmo, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. 7.62 Tok is my favorite pistol caliber, sure there are better rounds out there, but this one just calls to me, it's so fast and fun, and a few years ago was dirt freaking cheap, thats no longer the case unfortunately.

    But, if a company came out with a modern design chambered for 7.62 Tok would you be interested? Perhaps a Glock, or XDm, maybe a CZ75 style.
    What would you want?
     
  2. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    I'll take one.
    Can't afford no $1200 gun like the Five-seven so it would have to be <$400.
    Like the design of the CZ but only 9 rounds?
    Something with a minimum of 14 double stacked, maybe even 20.
     

  3. Yeah I would want it to be a double stack mag.
     
  4. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Yes, it CZ made a double-stack 7.62x25 I'd start saving my pennies for it. My favorite winter carry is a CZ-52.

    Heck, if someone like Kel Tec made a PF9 in 7.62x25 I'd be saving my pennies.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  5. Ranger-6

    Ranger-6 Member

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    I really don't have a need for such a gun, but it might be interesting to shoot it and experience the differences.
     
  6. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I'm imagining this in hi-cap. (and drooling)

    [​IMG]

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  7. Faeodan

    Faeodan Its comeing right for us! Member

    That is a slick 52. I would love to have a cz75, or hell even a new tanfoglio witness chambered in the 7.62x25. I would love to have the five-seven, but for a pistol that's claim to fame is mearly the round it fires, I wouldn't do close to the asking price on them. Save a few extra months and just have the p90. I would just set and hold it while watching Stargate SG1 all day. Le sigh.
     
  8. Upshifter

    Upshifter Well-Known Member

    The CZ-52 is a powerful handgun. It shoots CZ machine gun rounds that I've been told are unsafe to shoot in a Tok. Yet there is a similarity between the 30 Mauser, 7.62 x 25 Russian, and the CZ machine gun ammo. I still have some CZ ammo, but nothing to shoot it in.

    Before the Clinton gun ban, I had some excellent Chinese Toks. One of them shot both 7.62 x 25 and 9mm Lugar. It came with two barrels, two recoil springs, and two different magazines. I sold it at a gun show. I still have one regular 9mm Chinese Tok.

    When the CZ-52s first hit the market, I bought three of them with consecutive years they were made. They were Parkerized and new guns, not rebuilt. I was told that the CZs with black finish had been rebuilt at the factory. Like a fool, I traded CZs in towards a Century M1 Garrand rifle. The M1 was made from parts from all over the world, and was POS. I always have regretted doing that.

    My son likes CZ-52s because he has large hands, and the CZ-52 fits him well. I have smaller hands and I like 9 x 18 Makarovs, he doesn't.
     
  9. zombiekiller

    zombiekiller Member

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    I'd buy one. Super fun round to shoot plus I saw the end of cheap surplus and have two cases of romanian before it dried up. New ammo would have to be sold everywhere for a new pistol to sell well.
     
  10. Rerun

    Rerun Supporting Member

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    The 7.62 x 25mm cartridge is really potent too. Test have shown that the round penetrates the US M-1 helmet (WW II fame) handsomely. Other more 'worldly' handgun cartridges lack that power.

    I'd buy a Tok or a CZ-52.

    eldar
     
  11. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    The chamber walls on the Tok are actually thicker than those on the CZ-52. A guy going by the handle of "Clark" did some dramatic over-pressure tests, way way up past +P+++, and was blowing up '52s before Toks. More metal = stronger in this case.

    You're right that the 7.52x25 "Tokarev" round is based on the 7.63x25 Mauser (aka: 30 Mauser). The 7.52x25 is (ims) almost double the CUP pressure of its Mauser predecessor, however. From memory the 30 Mauser is ~27,000 CUP and the 7.52x25 is up to ~42,000 CUP.

    There has never been any solid evidence that the '52 was intended for "hotter" Czech machine gun ammo. What surplus has been tested seems to indicate that the Czech's only had one pressure of ammo that they used in both but to date no one has found any sort of Czech government document trail one way or the other. However there has been 3 or 4 events which may help explain this either individually or on unison. First, Russian made surplus 7.62x25 rounds tend to test out much cooler than other Soviet nations offerings. Second, at least one lot of surplus ammo was found to be defective. Third, some surplus ammo has been speculated to be degrading which may have been leading to inconsistent pressures (some very high, some very low) in those batches. Fourth, some people, very early on, claim to have found/used "proofing" ammo which was deliberately over-pressured (I think I read something like 50%).

    Whatever the case, any 7.62x25 ammo you find now will feed safely to your Tok or CZ-52. They can also eat, with impunity, any 7.63 Mauser. However, as has been noted, a firearm chambered for 7.63 Mauser will likely spontaneously disassemble if fed 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo.

    Those double-cal conversion kits are bringing a premium now. I watched one guy hunt for a very long time for a 9mm barrel for his '52.

    When the CZ-52s first hit the market, I bought three of them with consecutive years they were made. They were Parkerized and new guns, not rebuilt. I was told that the CZs with black finish had been rebuilt at the factory. Like a fool, I traded CZs in towards a Century M1 Garrand rifle. The M1 was made from parts from all over the world, and was POS. I always have regretted doing that.

    My son likes CZ-52s because he has large hands, and the CZ-52 fits him well. I have smaller hands and I like 9 x 18 Makarovs, he doesn't.[/QUOTE]
    I love my CZ-52. It's my favorite handgun, really.

    But I also kinda have a thing for 9x18 Makarov guns.

    Starting at 12:00

    Imez IJ70-18AH, P64, CZ-82, PA-63, Norinco Mod. 59

    [​IMG]

    Now I just need to get a P83 and find some way to get a FORT-12 ;)

    I'm planning on shooting the P64 this afternoon.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Brassfetcher tests shows a 7.62x25 "Tok" round easily penetrating modern NIJIIA soft armor and BoxOTruth tests show it easily punching though a modern issue Kevelar helmet.

    Yeah.

    I don't know about how expanding ammo would perform against armor but I think probably not as well.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  13. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

  14. 9mmXfactor

    9mmXfactor Member

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    doesnt this gun exist already? it comes in the form of a glock 32!!!


    357 sig, the modern 7.62x25 :D
     
  15. Rerun

    Rerun Supporting Member

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    .357 SIG ~ Sorely lacking in penetration power...

    eldar
     
  16. 9mmXfactor

    9mmXfactor Member

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    the 357 sig screams out at around 1500 fps with a 4'' barrel and 115 grain bullet... i'd say a longer barrel and same weight bullet ='s win!!!
     
  17. Rerun

    Rerun Supporting Member

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    Fails to penetrate the US M-1 helmet...

    I'd say it is because the bullet is too wide to pierce the metal effectively.

    eldar
     
  18. Unless you plan on shooting people in the helmet or kevlar vest, excessive penetration is not a virtue in a pistol carried for self defense.
     
  19. The Sig is no Tok round, there's something about the age and military history that the Sig just can't give me. Although most surplus has dried up, you can get factory ammo fairly easily, with reloadable brass if you load. Penetration I think is a major factor in the coolness of the Tok round. Is it necessary? Not particularly, will you be carrying FMJs if t's your carry gun, not likely, but it's an available capability. I really like the flat trajectory of high velocity rounds, and I love the snappy recoil, the huge muzzle blast and the loud bang you get from the 7.62x25.
     
  20. I still want some of the WWII guns in that caliber! I suppose the caliber isn't popular anymore so no one would be intrested in manufacturing such a gun.... ???