Would you do something

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by 1knight, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. Well I thought this would be a good topic here since I read the answers from my local gun owners forum and the question is if you were at a mall and firearms were not restricted and someone started shooting. Would you do something to try to stop it.


    How many of you would have gone out of your way to try and get a shot at this guy and to stop him from what he was doing.

    The legal beagles (No insult meant :mrgreen:) among us will explain that if you aren't in danger yourself. Stay out of it. Your setting yourself up for a lawsuit. But this isn't like the "one on one confrontations" that we discussed before. This is a sniper killing lots of people.
    What would the legal side of this be?
    And would you be willing to try to position yourself to take a shot at this guy. Or would you take cover and wait for help to arrive.

    I will be the first to answers by all means I WOULD but only if I were in the general area and not on the other side of the mall
  2. griff30

    griff30 Member

    I don't carry, but I would if I did. Otherwise if they were in range of say 15 feet, I would dice them, as I always carry a razor sharp knife and I very good with a knife. I am a very talented eskrimador so blades and sticks are my "carry".

  3. I'm not a peace officer and I was never in the military. I don't have the training to be a mall commando. If the shooting was at my location, I'd rely on the training I do have and my human responsibility to guide my actions. But, I would have no business traveling across the building looking to become involved in the trouble. I should call 911 and try to let those equipped to deal with it do so.
  4. If I were armed and found myself in a situation similar to what you describe my first instinct would be to extract myself and as many people close by as possible to a safer, more secure, location and notify the authorities. If I were in the immediate area of the shooting and had the opportunity to take out the shooter before he could take more lives then I would do so.

    Sadly malls are gun free zones for honest citizens, so I try to avoid them like the plague.
  5. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    The problem is that there are just TOO many variables to consider with this situation.

    Where is the shooter located? Who and what is around him or her? Types of structures surrounding you and the shooter? What time of day is it (HUGE population factor)? Even elements such as what type of neighbourhood the mall is in and how many shots have already been fired all equate into a chaotic mess.

    In some senarios I could comfortably say "Yes, I'd return an offensive shot" or "I would wait till a defenceive response was needed" or "No, I'd find cover" or even "No, BUT I would wait for an oppurtunity in order to assure the safety of the rest of the population within the line of fire"

    There really IS just too many factors to consider. One option could mark you as a hero, others would only bring you legal action for firing a weapon in a "Gun Free" zone, and yet other options may find you explaining why one of your rounds found its way into a 10 year old's chest who just happened to somehow get into the line of fire.

    I honestly, in all good faith, cannot give a concrete answer on this one.

    Does this mean I avoid such locations? Quite the opposite. Then again, I've grown up in an environment of large populations and shaky at best public safety and have found observation a far more powerful tool than any firearm in many situations.
  6. Silicon Wolverine

    Silicon Wolverine Well-Known Member

    Variables are the key to the question. If you are in a position to stop the shooter without harming or endangering others, i feel you should. However if there is any question about the safety of others, exfill as fast as possible while mainting calm and order.

    That said, personnaly, i would get my crew to safety, diall 911 and notify the operator that an armed civilian is on scene. After that situation dictates, but i would do whatever needed to assure the saftey of those around me regardless of my own welfare. But thats just me.

  7. I can't really say either. I carry for self-defense and defense of my family and by etnesion anone within my radius of action, but to go hunting the perp; that's an LEO thing, and I would rather elave that to the professionals. Now if the BG happened to fall within my rradius of action.....
  8. I took my wife to the mall the other day. While she was in a store, I sat outside and looked about. I thought "what if". The plan I created was to run quickly into the store, grab her and others, and take up a defensive spot. I didn't feel trained to go hunting per se.

    I also thought, I'd feel like crap if 10 people got shot and I might have stopped them at 2. I also thought I might not be prepared to all-of-a-sudden having a gun pointed at me. I guess that's why one should go through these scenarios often enough, so you're prepared.
  9. Kelotravolski

    Kelotravolski Member

    I think people are so worried about what legally might happen they do not realize that human lives are at stake. Would you kill someone to avoid legal hassle or maybe even jail time? Would you let someone die when you might have been able to stop it? People talk about waiting for the cops. Just like at VT, Columbine, and countless other shootings. What good is it for us to arm ourselves to protect us if we are just going to sit on our thumbs while a BG is running loose because we're not allowed to defend our fellow man?
  10. I value the life of my wife over all other things. I would gladly lay down my life to save hers. I really can't say that about anybody else, but they are still humans, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers to someone.... could I live with miself if I could have done something and didn't? Am I willing to risk my famaly's life if I fail? Those are hard questions, probably answered only at the moment in time that they NEED to be answerd.
  11. I'm with Neo, too many details left out. If I were with friends and or family, I would be more concerned with finding a suitable place to bunker down and defend. If he was roaming the mall taking shots and I was alone, I would find a suitable place and if he walked by I would take action. I would not go on a hunt for this individual as the odds are against me as everyone is his target and I only have one, so he's got the upper hand there.
  12. urotu

    urotu Member

    And this really is the issue, and would reflect on how anyone reacted.

    You can't fill in the blanks here, because each case is going to be different, and each one will have it;s own variables to have to consider.

    I can honestly say I would do whatever needed to be done at the time.

    Would I go hunt the guy down and shoot him? Haha, I love when I read that answer from people. Shots being fired, adrenaline surging, most will be clinching their butt cheeks so tight you wouldn't be able to pull silk thread through there. But everyone is sure they'll go hunt someone down and come out victorious.

    I'm a realist, I'll do what I can because it's the right thing to do. Depending on where you are the right thing may be to get all the people you're with to a safe cover. It may be to get on the horn to 911 or your other local emergency line. It might be having to get a group of people calmed down enough to do some of this for you, or getting people out of harms way to begin with.

    If I were armed and I could, I would at least try to draw his fire from others who might not be as lucky. Hopefully, I could get a shot in, but until we're there, I have no idea how close he (or she) may be. If they're toting a long gun that shoots rifle rounds, man I'd be screwed, but you do what you can.

    But all this being said, I would do what needed to be done first depending on where I was. If I needed to be clearing a room full of screaming toddlers from the Toys "R" Us before the shooter got that far, that's what I would be doing, if it meant calming down the clientele of the earlybird special at the Shoney's that's what it would be.

    Search and destroy is a suicide mission, and all the gung ho, macho, hunt the BG down attitude isn't going to change that. A cool head and cool hand will prevail.
  13. Well like some have said Im not talking about going on the hunt for the guy im asking if he was in your general area 15-25yrds would you take him out if you could. I would never go on the hunt for a gunman and would hope anyone else would either.
  14. Ridge

    Ridge Member

    If Im by myself, and someone opens up across the mall, Im gonna leave...if I am reasonably close to the action, and I have a means to stop him, and a clear way to get to him without putting people in harm's way, I probably would try to stop him...like if Im in a shop behind him when he opens up and hes within say 100ft and/or below me, I'd engage, but otherwise I would stay out of the way...
  15. khatores

    khatores Guest

    It still depends on some factors. What are you carrying, and what does he have? Do you have a 9C, and he has some carbine with an extended mag? What kind of shoes do you have on? If they're flip-flops or heels (if you're a woman) then you might want to take them off.

    I'd say the order of operations would go something like...

    1. Seek cover for yourself and those around you
    2. Dial 911 while pulling your gun
    3. Report the problem while surveying the target
    4. Decide on a tactical course of action...advance, take a shot, etc.

    You should definitely pull your gun after taking cover, because he could come right over to you (as witnesses report that they do in many cases). That doesn't automatically mean you have to do anything; it's a purely defensive measure.

    The problem with hunting down the gunman is that to do it without making yourself a target, you'll need to go slowly and methodically, while always having an escape plan. If it's right around a bend, then it would be best to set up a position nearby and wait, with a path to advance if needed. Remember also that a mall has many shiny and reflective areas, so you (or the gunman) could be exposed to the other, without having a direct line-of-sight. If he sees everyone running away, but sees your reflection in a window running towards him, that may be fairly obvious.
  16. jason865

    jason865 Guest

    Sorry, but if I am at a mall and someone comes in blasting innocent people while I am armed then I would first direct my family towards a safe location, tell them to call 911, and go after the guy. I may go to jail, and I may go to hell, but I couldnt live with my self knowing that I hid while innocent people got killed just so I could protect my personal safety or legal liability.

    I am not talking about running through the mall like rambo mind you. However, if someone is opening fire at random, their basic location isnt going to be hard to find.