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Nah....I am really not interested. The more I think about the Zastava M70, the more I do not like it.

The best thing I have done in a while is to finagle myself out of the purchase of the Zastava and replace it with the Bond Arms.
The safety lever is wrong anyway.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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How is it wrong? It's like a 1911, down for fire.
I agree with you there. However, it is way too var back to reliably reach. With a 1911, the size and position is such that you can reach it. With this, I don't believe it to be easily reached.

But I completely, 100% agree with you that "down for fire, up for safe" is bio-mechanically "right."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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I really think most of the "backwards" safeties are less up and down, and more back for safe, forward to fire, just like a tang safety or the safety on the side of a bolt action.

I am also almost completely convinced that many of them were set up for two handed operation, leftover from charging and cocking a BP weapon.
 

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I agree with you there. However, it is way too var back to reliably reach. With a 1911, the size and position is such that you can reach it. With this, I don't believe it to be easily reached.

But I completely, 100% agree with you that "down for fire, up for safe" is bio-mechanically "right."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Agreed, bio-mechanically correct. The pistol actually fits in the hand well and you can easily hit the safety. I have two. Great little guns. You just cant beat the perfection of John Browning.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I did not particularly like the safety on the Zastava M70. I will not say it was bad, but it doesn’t particularly flip down to fire either. It’s more like a rear to front arc. The safety was hard for me to get my thumb on. Had to shift my grip. Although my large hands were the issue I think. I don’t think those with smaller hands would have an issue with the safety.
 

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I did not particularly like the safety on the Zastava M70. I will not say it was bad, but it doesn't particularly flip down to fire either. It's more like a rear to front arc. The safety was hard for me to get my thumb on. Had to shift my grip. Although my large hands were the issue I think. I don't think those with smaller hands would have an issue with the safety.
Kirk has girly hands and shoulders so....
 

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The safety on the M70 is of typical foreign design based on how the weapon is used and carried. Look at the position the safety is in when the weapon is in a holster, the safety is designed to be accessible while in the holster. As it is pulled from the holster the safety is disengaged easily due to the position and design.
upload_2021-2-23_19-16-35.jpeg
 

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Also, you're confusing biomechanics with ergonomics. Biomechanics is how the body operates. Ergonomics is how the body interacts with man-made objects.
 

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Also, you're confusing biomechanics with ergonomics. Biomechanics is how the body operates. Ergonomics is how the body interacts with man-made objects.
No, I actually meant biomechanically. Buy, yes, it is also related to the ergos. I say biomechanically because that's what I want to draw attention to, because the thumb, both physically and psychologically, grips down. The fist clenches. The thumb is stronger when sweeping down and weaker when trying to flip up. It's how the body operates. Throw in some stuff about the Moro Reflex here. Any thumb-safety which does not work with the thumb that way is wrong.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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No, I actually meant biomechanically. Buy, yes, it is also related to the ergos. I say biomechanically because that's what I want to draw attention to, because the thumb, both physically and psychologically, grips down. The fist clenches. The thumb is stronger when sweeping down and weaker when trying to flip up. It's how the body operates. Throw in some stuff about the Moro Reflex here. Any thumb-safety which does not work with the thumb that way is wrong.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
And as flash pointed out its an ergo design for in-holster operation. I've got some rather large meat hooks and virtual all safeties are not ergonomically designed to operate with my biomechanics without some form of operational adaptation due my musculoskeletal design.

Most people have hands sized small enough to use the pad of the thumb to flip a safety or their index finger to pull the trigger.

My thumb is large enough that I can almost reach the trigger with it on most firearms, including hi points. To flip a safety without shifting my grip means I have to use the meat on my proximal phalange between the knuckles. Even my trigger finger rests more comfortably on the middle phalange between the knuckles than it does the pad of the distal phalange.

Adapt and overcome. Wrong for me or you is just right or meh for enough people that it's the design that won out...
 

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My little girly length hands say that 95% of the mag releases on the planet are wrong.
That HK or Walther paddle release that the interwebz expurts hate? Perfect design. Every gun I have that will allow it has the “lefty” mag release set up, so I can use my trigger finger to push it.
 

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My little girly length hands say that 95% of the mag releases on the planet are wrong.
That HK or Walther paddle release that the interwebz expurts hate? Perfect design. Every gun I have that will allow it has the "lefty" mag release set up, so I can use my trigger finger to push it.
I have the opposite problem. Even with a relaxed grip, and the thickest backstrap on the Gen 4 G20; I'm way past the trigger guard, well past the mag release, have to squeeze my fingers to get them in the finger grooves, the beaver tail is swallowed by the webbing of my hand, and my index finger barely fits in the trigger guard

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Looking at that hand, I feel.....less than adequate.:(
 
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And as flash pointed out its an ergo design for in-holster operation.
I guess that's fair. But then it's not a thumb-safety, it's a holster-safety. And I bet we can think of better ways to design a holster safety. Maybe just have the holster cover the trigger or something? ;)

If it is indeed a holster-safety, then it was designed to try to be both a holster-safety and a thumb-safety. Instead of doing one well, it does both mediocre at best.

I've got some rather large meat hooks and virtual all safeties are not ergonomically designed to operate with my biomechanics without some form of operational adaptation due my musculoskeletal design.

Most people have hands sized small enough to use the pad of the thumb to flip a safety or their index finger to pull the trigger.

My thumb is large enough that I can almost reach the trigger with it on most firearms, including hi points. To flip a safety without shifting my grip means I have to use the meat on my proximal phalange between the knuckles. Even my trigger finger rests more comfortably on the middle phalange between the knuckles than it does the pad of the distal phalange.

Adapt and overcome. Wrong for me or you is just right or meh for enough people that it's the design that won out...
To be fair, I've come to really appreciate grip-safeties. I particularly like the ones which hinge at the base. I think they fill the roll of a "passive" safety (as in "just do what you do naturally") but better than Glock's trigger-dingus.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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If it is indeed a holster-safety, then it was designed to try to be both a holster-safety and a thumb-safety. Instead of doing one well, it does both mediocre at best.
What kind of dumbass logic are you attempting to apply in a convoluted effort to keep yourself from being wrong? It's a thumb safety designed to be operated in a holstered position where the geometry of the wrist when grasping the firearm allows for the thumb to sweep in a downward motion and disengage the safety as the hand closes allowing one's trigger finger to serve as the final mechanical safety upon presentation of the firearm.

It used to be a well trained action to sweep the safety "down"/forward/off as you grip so it wasn't a deliberate and awkward action after achieving a solid grip and presentation altered the angle of your wrist and biomechanics made the action awkward and possibly require a grip change taking up precious time.

Just stick with; "No, sir. I don't like it."
 

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Come on....let’s talk about something we can all agree on, like how far back a trigger should break.
 
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What kind of dumbass logic are you attempting to apply in a convoluted effort to keep yourself from being wrong? It's a thumb safety designed to be operated in a holstered position where the geometry of the wrist when grasping the firearm allows for the thumb to sweep in a downward motion and disengage the safety as the hand closes allowing one's trigger finger to serve as the final mechanical safety upon presentation of the firearm.
The logic that says a holster-safety is designed to be operated by the holster, which is what I thought was being suggested.
 
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