Nope......

 

C9 can use the red ball now with sleeve

 

Never.
Good opportunity maybe for a new company to make a zamak slide, glock compatible frame/receiver straight blowback pistol and carbine for just about the same price point? Is that even possible nowadays?

 

Probably not.

 

Why use Zamak?
Maybe use some other metal, like Diamondback or Keltec does, you mean?

 

Well. What's priced right, and does not require extensive machining?
I mean, the r&d costs and tooling has already been recouped for Hi Point firearms, but for a new company, what is it gonma take to set themselves apart, and be competitive with Hi Point and US made?
Zamak was what came to mind, but might there be other metals that could work with straight blowback?

I think stamping/spot welding could work for certain designs but that depends on other things.

 

From what I understand, Hi Point had the expertise, tools and the sources for injection molding Zamak, guns were just another way for them to do what they already did. If someone wasn't already good at that and doing it, I doubt they'd go that route.

With the reputation of Zamak among the "You get what you pay for" crowd, I think it would be a hard sell for anyone starting a new line of Zamak guns, even if they COULD do it competitively with HP.

That said, there is a HUGE number of multi axis mills out there, and milling some metals isn't that hard. Maybe that would be the way to go?

 

The problem with machining/milling is that of paying operators time and paying for the tooling, maintenance, designing, programmers, and engineers... aka r&d costs.

This was the major reason for guns like the Grease Gun, Sten, and the like back in ww2.

Here is what I'm kind of envisioning though.
Stamped steel covers, pinned barrels, 3d printed chassis with sheet steel reinforcements, reduce machining/milling to the barrel and the bolt if necessary... cast metal or 3d metal printed/forged bolt system?
Here is a big problem though. How expensive are the barrels to produce, relative to the rest of the guns? I just think thats what would drive prices until you can sell enough to drive prices down?

 

The problem with machining/milling is that of paying operators time and paying for the tooling, maintenance, designing, programmers, and engineers... aka r&d costs.

This was the major reason for guns like the Grease Gun, Sten, and the like back in ww2.

Here is what I'm kind of envisioning though.
Stamped steel covers, pinned barrels, 3d printed chassis with sheet steel reinforcements, reduce machining/milling to the barrel and the bolt if necessary... cast metal or 3d metal printed/forged bolt system?
Here is a big problem though. How expensive are the barrels to produce, relative to the rest of the guns? I just think thats what would drive prices until you can sell enough to drive prices down?

You can buy 16" AR barrels for under $100 retail, one would assume wholesale prices for a pile of 5" pistol barrels with chambers shouldn't be too bad. All that R&D and programming of mills is easy, it's literally hobby stuff these days. If you can cut soft enough metal, like Zamak or aluminum, and keep from tearing machines and tools up, the prices for that part of it shouldn't be that high. But, as you say, why not stamp and weld parts? Not to mention, why print plastic if you can inject it?

We have several machine shops in town here, they do mining and oil field stuff, and they sell it all over the world, like in Norway for their off shore rigs. One of them is making precision rifles, AR uppers, but bolt actions. They have been doing AR10 items, but just got a run of .224 Valkyrie units done, just over $1000, but they use some upscale parts and materials, cut their uppers from billet 6061T aluminum, machine the bolts from 4140 CM steel, and harden and coat them in house. The AR10's use Shilen barrels, the AR15 units are from a machine shop in southern Utah that uses Shilen or Green Mt. blanks to build precision barrels.

So a precision semi-custom rifle upper is $1000, but I'm sure they could turn out KelTec/Diamondback/SccY/HP quality handguns at that $200 mark without much effort. But they won't, because at that price, volume is the only way to make any money, and they don't have the capacity to make it worth their time.

 

Google "Liberator Pistol WWII"

 

I'm just looking at it from this direction.... as a WG-4 Machinist's Helper back in the summer of 2003; I was paid $12.67 a hour, in North Carolina, as a civilian contractor for the Dept of the Navy.... surely wages have increased for machinists with certifications and degrees, as well as the wages to pay a competent CAD designer/engineer/programmer...I realize nowadays its getting easier to do CNC programming with new CAD/CAM programs....but it is still not as cheap as the WW2 Liberator or M3 Grease gun manufacturing......
Really, its the economy of scale. (the reason AR15s are as affordable as they are nowadays, there's literally millions of them being made to what is arguably the same basic specifications for the AR-15)
I think I asked this question before; would it have been possible for an American company to make a gun just like the SKS, out of wood and machined steel nowadays, to sell them at the same price they were commanding before?

Also, it is more expensive to do injection molding than it is to 3D print, because you got to make the dies for the molds in the first place, whereas to 3d print, you just need the right resin/materials, and the CAD/CAM files for the computer to read and translate.
Probably the same with casting, depending on what you're casting with....lost wax is cheapest I think (wax mold, put sand or medium around, then pour molten metal into the mold), but die casts require making the dies as well, although this method would allow thousands, if not millions of metal parts to be cast before needing to replace the dies.


It's interesting thought exercise though.

Producing an all metal(alloy frame, steel slide, or some such), fine looking, reliable handgun that is relatively light but accurate, and takes most common magazines (Glock or Beretta 92), and being at the same price <$200 point of Hi Point...maybe possible, only if can sell thousands a year right off?

 

Maybe. They're expecting to announce something big at the upcoming SHOT Show.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

My wager is 10mm pistol.

 

or you could give jimenez arms some business.

 

or you could give jimenez arms some business.

Moonz would retort some sort of nasty reply, but he's still clutching at his chest and staggering around the room ala Redd Foxx.

Jimenez makes better looking guns than Hi-Point but their 9mm frames crack, dunno 'bout their double stack .380

 

I’ve never had one or held one.
How are they better looking, are they machined after casting?

 

I've never had one or held one.
How are they better looking, are they machined after casting?

They mad of shit

 

Why o why in Hades name do we always want a product to be what it isn't?
Do Glockies demand a single stack and a zamak slide ? No they don't, they'd buy a HiPoint.
Seriously people, if you want something else then buy something else.

 

People want a <$200 gun that takes Glock or Beretta 92 magazines, instead of $400-500 guns that takes $15 or less standard double stack magazines, as opposed to guns that cost under $200, but their magazines cost $15+ at the minimum for 10 rds.
Seems people want a handgun thats low budget and has plentiful budget magazines.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Did not realize this was a Religion Section.

 

Well I guess Hades is part of a religion.

 

You find Jesus offensive? Oh Lordy Lordy...
Well as usual you missed the irony.
Lotsa people want religion to be something that it isn’t.
It would really help with the bandwidth if I didn’t have to explain every joke to you.
Bandwidth you know for our brethren with dial up.

 

You find Jesus offensive? Oh Lordy Lordy...
Well as usual you missed the irony.
Lotsa people want religion to be something that it isn't.
It would really help with the bandwidth if I didn't have to explain every joke to you.
Bandwidth you know for our brethren with dial up.

Mods. Would you please move this thread to the Religion area?

 

....

 

No, it was a picture of Jesus that you decided to take offense to because you have an axe to grind with swaga. I suggest you both grow up.

 

No sir it is not! Swaga trolls and I am ignoring him. I am a believer, a Christian.
The rules here limit Religion to the Dark Rooms. It was a cartoon of Jesus just as Moona11 posted was also. Of course I take an offense to both of them.

Since you are not a Christian, I don't expect you to wholly understand.

 

To answer the ORIGINAL question without a total redesign of the inner mechanicals none of the current Hi Point pistols could use a double stack magazine. The grip would end up so wide that anybody with a normal sized hand couldn’t grip the pistol.

 

To answer the ORIGINAL question without a total redesign of the inner mechanicals none of the current Hi Point pistols could use a double stack magazine. The grip would end up so wide that anybody with a normal sized hand couldn't grip the pistol.

X2
Best answer

 

What a thread drift!

So forum rules depend on how a staff feels about something? Someone else post a scripture or mention Jesus and the mod hammer falls at least with a warning. But a possible mocking of Christian figure gets nothing?? And is if a staff is offended that is the criteria for what forum it belongs in?? So scripture offends staff?? :thumbsdown:
BTW, I don't think Jesus looked anything like any of those pictures. There are many jesus' in the world today and past. It is a popular name in some cultures.

 

What a thread drift!

So forum rules depend on how a staff feels about something? Someone else post a scripture or mention Jesus and the mod hammer falls at least with a warning. But a possible mocking of Christian figure gets nothing?? And is if a staff is offended that is the criteria for what forum it belongs in?? So scripture offends staff?? :thumbsdown:
BTW, I don't think Jesus looked anything like any of those pictures. There are many jesus' in the world today and past. It is a popular name in some cultures.

 

@lklawson I personally think a small CC pistol died with Tom Deeb.

My hunch is the CC pistol was what Tom Deeb was looking into making when he passed. It's all conjecture on my part, but when he died in 2016 he was down in Denton Texas "with his partner Janice Jennings by his side". That's the same Janice Jennings of the now defunct Jennings Firearms and Shining Star Investments -which is located in Lewisville TX, a mere 20 minutes away from Denton. (Yes @moona11 , after Tom & Shirley divorced, Tom was with a Janice Jennings -so sorry to burst yer bubble)

But Kirk, now that you mention the Cobra Denali... you've got my gears spinning. I've noticed that Cobra Industries isn't hawking their firearms on their website anymore https://cobrapistols.net They've got parts to sell, but no guns. And Cobra was/is facing a serious mega-buck lawsuit. And we know Davis Industries begat Cobra Industries... and that there was a relationship between Jennings and Davis...

hmmm so maybe something...

or maybe not.

 

You very well could be right. Won't know for sure until SHOT (if it isn't leaked first).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

Given the fact that the 1095 was released last year I would have put money on a 10mm pistol. Now that the Cobra connection has been pointed out I'm second guessing the 10mm pistol. It seems like they could sell more CCW pistols than larger, more expensive to shoot 10mm pistols. [emoji848]
Now I can't wait for the official announcement!

 

I'm not sure 10 mm is any more expensive than .380, in many cases...

 

In my area; 10mm Auto is cheaper than .300BLK for retail boxes.

 

I bought my C9 because it was cheap, single stack and fit my hand better than the doubles. I didn't know if it would be any good, but I jumped. Here in California, affordable guns are hard to come by. Turns out it was a lot better than I expected. Great little gun, if this type of gun is what you need, get it. If not, Glocks, clones, etc. are out there.

 

I need eye bleach

 

Oops, sorry Moonz, I shoulda warned you.